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Nothing new about this usage of saya as we were taught to use SAYA to mean 'yes' when answering a call from our parents. On 1 August 2013 05:00, BAHASA automatic digest system < [log in to unmask]> wrote: > There are 5 messages totaling 784 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. saya vs. aku > 2. BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) Re: saya vs. aku > (3) > 3. BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:29:48 +0700 > From: E B <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: saya vs. aku > > What's the proper personal pronoun to use when addressing servants or other > of one's workers in West Java, speaking Indonesian? > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 07:10:15 +0000 > From: George Quinn <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) Re: saya > vs. aku > > I've just come back from a visit to Ternate in north Maluku. There I was > bemused to hear "saya" still being used in some contexts as a respectful > word for "yes". E.g. Quinn: "Gunung Gamalama indah sekali!" Local citizen > agreeing: "Saya." > I recall that this use of "saya" used to be fairly common in Java 50 years > ago when younger or lower status people addressed older or higher status > people (e.g. servant addressing boss), but it seems to have disappeared... > except in north Maluku! Is it still heard elsewhere in Indonesia? > -- > Dr George Quinn, > Adjunct Professor & Visiting Fellow, ANU College of Asia and the Pacific, > Member, ANU Emeritus Faculty, > Australian National University, > Canberra ACT 0200, > Australia. > > ** To view some of my shorter studies on Javanese language, literature & > religion go to: > http://anu.academia.edu/GQuinn > > ** For information on Canberra's Balai Bahasa Indonesia (ACT) go to: > http://bbiact.wordpress.com > > ________________________________________ > From: Indonesian language list [[log in to unmask]] on behalf > of BAHASA automatic digest system [[log in to unmask]] > Sent: 31 July 2013 14:00 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) > > There are 6 messages totaling 393 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. saya vs. aku (5) > 2. BAHASA Digest - 28 Jul 2013 to 29 Jul 2013 (#2013-7) > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 21:49:49 +0900 > From: Ajiek Kushajatie <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) Re: saya > vs. aku > > Well, in Jawa Tengah & Jawa Timur, people still using the word DALEM > (means = SAYA) to agree when speaking with elderly or people they respect. > > It is funny that they translate it into Bahasa Indonesia ……… > > All the best, > Ajiek Stoneman > > > On Jul 31, 2013, at 4:10 PM, George Quinn <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > I've just come back from a visit to Ternate in north Maluku. There I was > bemused to hear "saya" still being used in some contexts as a respectful > word for "yes". E.g. Quinn: "Gunung Gamalama indah sekali!" Local citizen > agreeing: "Saya." > > I recall that this use of "saya" used to be fairly common in Java 50 > years ago when younger or lower status people addressed older or higher > status people (e.g. servant addressing boss), but it seems to have > disappeared... except in north Maluku! Is it still heard elsewhere in > Indonesia? > > -- > > Dr George Quinn, > > Adjunct Professor & Visiting Fellow, ANU College of Asia and the Pacific, > > Member, ANU Emeritus Faculty, > > Australian National University, > > Canberra ACT 0200, > > Australia. > > > > ** To view some of my shorter studies on Javanese language, literature & > religion go to: > > http://anu.academia.edu/GQuinn > > > > ** For information on Canberra's Balai Bahasa Indonesia (ACT) go to: > > http://bbiact.wordpress.com > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: Indonesian language list [[log in to unmask]] on > behalf of BAHASA automatic digest system [[log in to unmask]] > > Sent: 31 July 2013 14:00 > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) > > > > There are 6 messages totaling 393 lines in this issue. > > > > Topics of the day: > > > > 1. saya vs. aku (5) > > 2. BAHASA Digest - 28 Jul 2013 to 29 Jul 2013 (#2013-7) > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 21:50:52 +0700 > From: Saut Situmorang <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) > > I never encounter the use of "Saya" in the context of Master-Slave > relationship. The word "Hamba" is usually used. When "Sahaya/Saya" used to > address a feudal master, it is the same as using it to address a Kepala > kampung or university rector in contemporary Indonesia: Formality's sake. > > -Saut Situmorang > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 11:00 AM, BAHASA automatic digest system < > [log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > There are 6 messages totaling 393 lines in this issue. > > > > Topics of the day: > > > > 1. saya vs. aku (5) > > 2. BAHASA Digest - 28 Jul 2013 to 29 Jul 2013 (#2013-7) > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 12:05:47 +0700 > > From: E B <[log in to unmask]> > > Subject: Re: saya vs. aku > > > > Doesn't "saya" have an etymology of meaning "slave" or "servant", the > same > > way the "abdi" can mean "servant" or "I" in Javanese? > > > > In Malay, they often just use "I" instead of "saya". One could probably > > get away with that in Indonesia; but I haven't tried it, yet. > > > > Those are very good links ( > > http://www.ausdag.blogspot.com.au/search/label/Aku%20dan%20Saya & > > > > > http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/showthread.php/20880-Bahasa-Kita?p=221283&viewfull=1#post221283 > > & http://bahasakita.com/pronoun-substitutes/ ) > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:18:46 +0900 > > From: AJIEK KUSHAJATIE <[log in to unmask]> > > Subject: Re: saya vs. aku > > > > SAYA is formal > > AKU is imformal > > > > Also, SAYA is when you talk with elder people and people you respect. > > AKU use to friends .... > > > > Good luck ... > > > > Ajiek Kushajatie Stoneman > > Tokyo - Japan > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > On 30 Jul 2013, at 04:21, Jody Diamond <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > > > diamond > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 18:13:26 +0700 > > From: Saut Situmorang <[log in to unmask]> > > Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 28 Jul 2013 to 29 Jul 2013 (#2013-7) > > > > When using "Indonesian" language (NOT "Bahasa" Indonesia!), "Saya" is > > usually used in a formal context and when speaking to someone much older > in > > age (especially one that you do not know that well) than you. Outside of > > these (including in literary works), most Indonesians like myself use > > "Aku". In the eastern part of Indonesia (Maluku and Papua), people use > > "Beta" for both. > > > > -Saut Situmorang > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:01 AM, BAHASA automatic digest system < > > [log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > > There are 2 messages totaling 87 lines in this issue. > > > > > > Topics of the day: > > > > > > 1. saya vs. aku (2) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 19:21:49 +0000 > > > From: Jody Diamond <[log in to unmask]> > > > Subject: saya vs. aku > > > > > > Is there a general rule or preferred practice for using either saya or > > aku > > > as the first person pronoun? I have heard many opinions on this. Is one > > > better for writing, another for conversation? > > > > > > Pendapat welcome. > > > jody diamond > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 19:47:10 -0700 > > > From: David Goldsworthy <[log in to unmask]> > > > Subject: Re: saya vs. aku > > > > > > Depends on regional context. I don't know about the rest of the > country, > > > but I learnt from experience that in Central Java aku, in spoken > > > Indonesian, still retains its Javanese nuances for many if not most > > > Javanese and thus should be avoided in favour of saya when addressing > > > someone to whom you would not use 'aku' if speaking Javanese. So in > that > > > respect, it is not interchangeable with saya, not in Central Java > anyway. > > > In pure, non-regionalised bahasa baku, aku seems most prevalent in > poetry > > > and popular lyrics. > > > http://www.ausdag.blogspot.com.au/search/label/Aku%20dan%20Saya > > > > > > DavidG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Jody Diamond <[log in to unmask]> > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > Sent: Tuesday, 30 July 2013 5:21 AM > > > Subject: saya vs. aku > > > > > > > > > Is there a general rule or preferred practice for using either saya or > > aku > > > as the first person pronoun? I have heard many opinions on this. Is one > > > better for writing, a > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > End of BAHASA Digest - 28 Jul 2013 to 29 Jul 2013 (#2013-7) > > > *********************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://sautsitumorang.wordpress.com/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 23:32:33 +0900 > > From: Ajiek Kushajatie <[log in to unmask]> > > Subject: Re: saya vs. aku > > > > You are right, SAYA was from the word SAHAYA, means SLAVE. > > > > The old days, when we speak to people of a very high ranking or to a > king, > > we have to call ourself with SAHAYA. > > > > Then, in Bahasa Melayu (Indonesian) we shorten it became SAYA. > > > > The same with the words SAHAJA -- > SAJA and BAHARU ---> BARU and > > DAHULU --> DULU. > > > > All the best, > > Ajiek Stoneman, Tokyo > > ----------------------------- > > > > > > On Jul 30, 2013, at 2:05 PM, E B <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > > Doesn't "saya" have an etymology of meaning "slave" or "servant", the > > same way the "abdi" can mean "servant" or "I" in Javanese? > > > > > > In Malay, they often just use "I" instead of "saya". One could > probably > > get away with that in Indonesia; but I haven't tried it, yet. > > > > > > Those are very good links ( > > http://www.ausdag.blogspot.com.au/search/label/Aku%20dan%20Saya & > > > http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/showthread.php/20880-Bahasa-Kita?p=221283&viewfull=1#post221283& > > http://bahasakita.com/pronoun-substitutes/ ) > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 19:13:09 -0400 > > From: Sri Wilkinson <[log in to unmask]> > > Subject: Re: saya vs. aku > > > > Hallo there > > > > 'Saya' is used in a formal situation/context, it is also used when you > > speak/write to a person you respect or should respect ( including the > > eldery, people in authority and people consider in higher position). As > > Indonesians consider the eldery, people in authority and people in higher > > position should be respected and should be spoken to in a formal way, > > therefore you should address yourself with 'saya'. > > > > 'Aku' is used in an informal situation/context; between friends and > equals. > > > > I hope this answers your question. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Sri Wilkinson > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 19:28:15 -0400 > > From: Sri Wilkinson <[log in to unmask]> > > Subject: Re: saya vs. aku > > > > Dear Jody > > > > 'Saya' is used in a formal situation/context. It is also used to > > speak/write to a person/people you respect or should respect (the > eldery, > > people in authority and your senior/people in higher position). As > > Indonesians consider the eldery, people in authority and people in high > > position should be respected and should be spoken in a formal way > > therefore you should ddressed yourself with personal pronoun 'saya'. > > > > I hope this answers your question. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Sri Wilkinson > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) > > *********************************************************** > > > > > > -- > http://sautsitumorang.wordpress.com/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 14:23:32 -0700 > From: David Goldsworthy <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) Re: saya > vs. aku > > In further response to the original question, I always tell my students > that there is no single correct answer. Due the the wide range of varying > practices from one area to another with respect to so much of Indonesian, > it is best to wait to see what the local practice is whatever area you > happen to be in. Learn to gauge how they use personal pronouns and terms of > address. In the meantime, always err on the side of caution and stick with > saya - unless you're writing poetry or song lyrics of course. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Ajiek Kushajatie <[log in to unmask]> > To: [log in to unmask] > Sent: Wednesday, 31 July 2013 10:49 PM > Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) Re: saya > vs. aku > > > Well, in Jawa Tengah & Jawa Timur, people still using the word DALEM > (means = SAYA) to agree when speaking with elderly or people they respect. > > It is funny that they translate it into Bahasa Indonesia ……… > > All the best, > Ajiek Stoneman > > > On Jul 31, 2013, at 4:10 PM, George Quinn <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > I've just come back from a visit to Ternate in north Maluku. There I was > bemused to hear "saya" still being used in some contexts as a respectful > word for "yes". E.g. Quinn: "Gunung Gamalama indah sekali!" Local citizen > agreeing: "Saya." > > I recall that this use of "saya" used to be fairly common in Java 50 > years ago when younger or lower status people addressed older or higher > status people (e.g. servant addressing boss), but it seems to have > disappeared... except in north Maluku! Is it still heard elsewhere in > Indonesia? > > -- > > Dr George Quinn, > > Adjunct Professor & Visiting Fellow, ANU College of Asia and the Pacific, > > Member, ANU Emeritus Faculty, > > Australian National University, > > Canberra ACT 0200, > > Australia. > > > > ** To view some of my shorter studies on Javanese language, literature & > religion go to: > > http://anu.academia.edu/GQuinn > > > > ** For information on Canberra's Balai Bahasa Indonesia (ACT) go to: > > http://bbiact.wordpress.com > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: Indonesian language list [[log in to unmask]] on > behalf of BAHASA automatic digest system [[log in to unmask]] > > Sent: 31 July 2013 14:00 > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) > > > > There are 6 messages totaling 393 lines in this issue. > > > > Topics of the day: > > > > 1. saya vs. aku (5) > > 2. BAHASA Digest - 28 Ju > > ------------------------------ > > End of BAHASA Digest - 30 Jul 2013 to 31 Jul 2013 (#2013-9) > *********************************************************** > -- Sallehuddin Abdullah-Sani Senior Lector in Indonesian Department of South East Asia Faculty of Languages and Cultures at SOAS Thornhaugh Street London WC1H 0XG +44 207 898 4256