Ryan Albrey ini siapa?! Jangan sama-samakan bahasa kami Bahasa Indonesia dengan bahasa Malaysia! Bahasa yang ko pakek di bawah aja kayak bahasa planet aneh, cemmana pulak ko nyama-nyamain kedua bahasa!!! Ketawak ratusan juta orang Indonesia baca omong kosongmu di bawah! Kacian deh lu, hahaha... -Saut Situmorang On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 11:00 AM, BAHASA automatic digest system < [log in to unmask]> wrote: > There are 8 messages totalling 467 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19) (7) > 2. Infant Language Acquisition of Bahasa (as first language) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 15:25:52 +0800 > From: Ryan Albrey <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19) > > Saya rasa mungkin orang di kumpulan emel ini terlalu cerewet pasal apa > istilah betul dan apa tak betul. > > Kita tak ada istilah yang merujuk kepada "bahasa yang diguna di > Nusantara (termasuk semenanjung melayu)". 'Bahasa' cukup baik pada > pendapat saya. > > Saya tak suka guna istilah "Bahasa Indonesia" atau "Bahasa Malaysia". > Bukan Indonesia atau Malaysia sahaja yang guna bahasa ini tau! Kerana > politik saja orang kata "Bahasa Indonesia" atau "Bahasa Malaysia" > seolah-olah bahasa berdua itu langsung asing. Sebenarnya bukan begitu. > Mereka tak mahu mengakui sebenarnya bahasa yang dicakap di Malaysia > lebih kurang sama dengan bahasa yang dicakap di Indonesia. Lagi lagi > kalau menulis atau cakap secara baik dan benar. > > Memang betul orang di KL tak cakap secara sama dengan orang di > Jakarta. Kadang kala pun orang di KL tak faham orang di Jakarta dan > sebaliknya pun ada. Namun pada amnya mereka guna bahasa yang sama. > Loghat dan dialekt sahaja yang beza. Bahasa Indonesia dan Bahasa > Malaysia ialah dua dialekt dari satu bahasa. Gak setuju? Lihat di > Wikipedia Indonesia dan Wikipedia Melayu! Langsung tak beda banget! > > Bahasa itu tak ada nama. Kalau bahasa itu tak ada nama mungkin > "Bahasa" cukup baik sebagai nama. > > Engkau semua mengerti tak apa erti saya? > > Ryan > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 22:05:36 -1000 > From: Uli Kozok <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19) > > You're right, David. We have this two extremes on both ends. Indonesians > who > insist that their language being called "Bahasa Indonesia" and not > "Indonesian" and native speakers of English, and apparently some Germans > too, who think that the name of the language is bahasa. A third variant I > encounter all the time is "Bahasa Indonesian". > > When I thought of an appropriate name for this mailing list I wanted to > avoid all reference to Indonesian as this list was initially intended to be > a mailing list focusing on Malay language related issues including all > Malay > dialects not only Indonesian. But then some people wrongly associate > "Malay" > exclusively with Malaysia. In order to avoid this dilemma and to keep the > list as open as possible I chose bahasa as the name of the list. > > > > > > > > Calling this mailing list 'Bahasa@....' doesn't help either. > > > > What REALLY ticks me off however, is insisting that the national language > > o= > > f Indonesia be exclusively referred to as 'Bahasa Indonesia' when > speaking > > = > > English. Wrong. The English name for the national language of the > Republic > > = > > of Indonesia is 'Indonesian'. > > > > DavidG > > > > > > > -- > Dr. Uli Kozok > Associate Professor > Indonesian-Malay Language Program > 2540 Maile Way, Spalding 255 > Honolulu, HI 96822, USA > Tel: +1.808. 956 7574 > Fax: +1.808. 956 5978 > http://www.hawaii.edu/indolang > http://bahasa.net/online > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 20:23:50 +1200 > From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19) > > it's like the french, who distinguish between ces deux langues: anglais et > = > americain, a difference in nomenclature that even the mainstream of those > t= > wo cultures don't normally insist on. > > yang penting: peran dan fungsi pemersatu yang dibebankan pada bahasa > Indone= > sia selama 80 tahunan ini, wajib dipertimbangkan dalam analisis > sosio-buday= > a masalah kebahasaan.=20 > > tim > > ________________________________________ > From: Indonesian language list [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf > Of= > Ryan Albrey [[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Thursday, 13 May 2010 7:25 p.m. > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19) > > Saya rasa mungkin orang di kumpulan emel ini terlalu cerewet pasal apa > istilah betul dan apa tak betul. > > Kita tak ada istilah yang merujuk kepada "bahasa yang diguna di > Nusantara (termasuk semenanjung melayu)". 'Bahasa' cukup baik pada > pendapat saya. > > Saya tak suka guna istilah "Bahasa Indonesia" atau "Bahasa Malaysia". > Bukan Indonesia atau Malaysia sahaja yang guna bahasa ini tau! Kerana > politik saja orang kata "Bahasa Indonesia" atau "Bahasa Malaysia" > seolah-olah bahasa berdua itu langsung asing. Sebenarnya bukan begitu. > Mereka tak mahu mengakui sebenarnya bahasa yang dicakap di Malaysia > lebih kurang sama dengan bahasa yang dicakap di Indonesia. Lagi lagi > kalau menulis atau cakap secara baik dan benar. > > Memang betul orang di KL tak cakap secara sama dengan orang di > Jakarta. Kadang kala pun orang di KL tak faham orang di Jakarta dan > sebaliknya pun ada. Namun pada amnya mereka guna bahasa yang sama. > Loghat dan dialekt sahaja yang beza. Bahasa Indonesia dan Bahasa > Malaysia ialah dua dialekt dari satu bahasa. Gak setuju? Lihat di > Wikipedia Indonesia dan Wikipedia Melayu! Langsung tak beda banget! > > Bahasa itu tak ada nama. Kalau bahasa itu tak ada nama mungkin > "Bahasa" cukup baik sebagai nama. > > Engkau semua mengerti tak apa erti saya? > > Ryan= > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 07:37:17 -0400 > From: Jody Diamond <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19) > > I work (infrequently) as an on-call phone interpreter for a > company called CanTalkCanada. When they need to talk to someone > who speaks Indonesian (and that's what they call it) but not > English (which is the language of the North American company or > social service), I am called as a telephone interpreter. > > Once I was called to help a young mother whose baby was ill. I > was asked to give her information about a medical hot line she > could call. After a few sentences, her mother chimed in, and > eventually took over because --- she spoke English. I was asked > to get up at two in the morning to talk to some offices in > Malaysia. They all spoke English. I was asked to interpret for a > legal deposition. I had to be sworn in, etc. When I began > "Selamat siang, Bapak dan Ibu," I was interrupted---what > language are you speaking? Indonesian, I said. The reply: But we > asked for Croation! I have other times been of help to > Indonesians in Canada dealing with the phone company, or in > WalMart trying to replace a faulty X-box. > > The language has at all times been referred to as "Indonesian." > > jody diamond > > (And the term "Bahasa Indonesian" bugs me too.) > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 05:08:27 -0700 > From: Katrin Bandel <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19) > > To me, the fact that I can read Ryan's email without a problem although I > h= > ave never lived in Malaysia or taken a Malaysian langsuage course is proof > = > enough that Indonesian and Malaysian are indeed quite similar. If they can > = > be called two languages, or two versions/dialects of one and the same > langu= > age is a matter of definition.=20 > > Anyhow, I don't agree that the fact that there doesn't seem to be an > approp= > riate name encompassing all those languages/dialects, should encourage us > t= > o just accept any name, as for example "bahasa". "Malay" is often used, > but= > this is problematic, too. Bahasa Melayu is one of the regional languages > i= > n Indonesia (with different regional variations, of course), and it > differs= > markedly from the national language referred to as Bahasa Indonesia. > Insis= > ting on seeing Indonesian as "only" a form of Malay sometimes goes hand in > = > hand with a sort of Malay chauvinistic attitude, i.e. a feeling of somehow > = > being "closer to the source", "owning" the Indonesian language more than > ot= > her ethnic groups do. It also ignores the many other influences on > Indonesi= > an. > > I think that the only solution is to just make the effort and specify each > = > time which particular language you are talking about. If there is no word > t= > hat refers as well to Indonesian as to Malaysian, well, then we'll just > hav= > e to go on saying "Indonesian and Malaysian". I don't see much of a > problem= > in that. > > One more comment on the use of the word "bahasa": In Indonesian colloquial > = > speech it is far more common to drop the "bahasa" from "bahasa Indonesia" > t= > han the "Indonesia". For example, you can say "Dia belum bisa ngomong > Indon= > esia" instead of "belum bisa ngomong bahasa Indonesia".=20 > > Katrin > > Dr. Katrin Bandel > =0A > =0Awww.katrinbandel.com > > --- On Thu, 13/5/10, [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> > wr= > ote: > > From: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19) > To: [log in to unmask] > Date: Thursday, 13 May, 2010, 3:23 PM > > it's like the french, who distinguish between ces deux langues: anglais et > = > americain, a difference in nomenclature that even the mainstream of those > t= > wo cultures don't normally insist on. > > yang penting: peran dan fungsi pemersatu yang dibebankan pada bahasa > Indone= > sia selama 80 tahunan ini, wajib dipertimbangkan dalam analisis > sosio-buday= > a masalah kebahasaan.=20 > > tim > > ________________________________________ > From: Indonesian language list [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf > Of= > Ryan Albrey [[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Thursday, 13 May 2010 7:25 p.m. > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19) > > Saya rasa mungkin orang di kumpulan emel ini terlalu cerewet pasal apa > istilah betul dan apa tak betul. > > Kita tak ada istilah yang merujuk kepada "bahasa yang diguna di > Nusantara (termasuk semenanjung melayu)". 'Bahasa' cukup baik pada > pendapat saya. > > Saya tak suka guna istilah "Bahasa Indonesia" atau "Bahasa Malaysia". > Bukan Indonesia atau Malaysia sahaja yang guna bahasa ini tau! Kerana > politik saja orang kata "Bahasa Indonesia" atau "Bahasa Malaysia" > seolah-olah bahasa berdua itu langsung asing. Sebenarnya bukan begitu. > Mereka tak mahu mengakui sebenarnya bahasa yang dicakap di Malaysia > lebih kurang sama dengan bahasa yang dicakap di Indonesia. Lagi lagi > kalau menulis atau cakap secara baik dan benar. > > Memang betul orang di KL tak cakap secara sama dengan orang di > Jakarta. Kadang kala pun orang di KL tak faham orang di Jakarta dan > sebaliknya pun ada. Namun pada amnya mereka guna bahasa yang sama. > Loghat dan dialekt sahaja yang beza. Bahasa Indonesia dan Bahasa > Malaysia ialah dua dialekt dari satu bahasa. Gak setuju? Lihat di > Wikipedia Indonesia dan Wikipedia Melayu! Langsung tak beda banget! > > Bahasa itu tak ada nama. Kalau bahasa itu tak ada nama mungkin > "Bahasa" cukup baik sebagai nama. > > Engkau semua mengerti tak apa erti saya? > > Ryan=0A=0A > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 13:18:47 -0500 > From: eri kurniawan <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19) > > Dear all, > > The very first time I heard someone refer to Indonesian as "bahasa" was > when > I taught Indonesian to Indian expatriates back then in Indonesia. It was a > well-known fact among Indian expatriates that "bahasa" is the proper > reference for Indonesian. I've never heard such a term in other contexts > and > most importantly, I wouldn't use the term myself. I'm Indonesian, by the > way. > > With warm regards, > Eri Kurniawan > > Ph.D. Student > The Department of Linguistics > The University of Iowa > 556 English Philosophy Building > U.S.A 52242 > > > > On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 11:00 PM, BAHASA automatic digest system < > [log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > [image: LISTSERV mailing list manager] <http://www.lsoft.com> > [image: > > LISTSERV 15.0] <http://listserv.dartmouth.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=BAHASA > > > > > > BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19) Table of > contents: > > > > - BAHASA Digest - 10 May 2010 to 11 May 2010 > (#2010-18)<#1288fd1f026983be_S1>(6) > > - Infant Language Acquisition of Bahasa (as first > language)<#1288fd1f026983be_S2>(2) > > > > > > 1. BAHASA Digest - 10 May 2010 to 11 May 2010 (#2010-18) > > - Re: BAHASA Digest - 10 May 2010 to 11 May 2010 > (#2010-18)<?ui=2&ik=f96573c9da&view=att&th=1288fd1f026983be&attid=0.1&disp=emb&zw>(05/12) > > *From:* chris henderson <[log in to unmask]> > > - Re: BAHASA Digest - 10 May 2010 to 11 May 2010 > (#2010-18)<?ui=2&ik=f96573c9da&view=att&th=1288fd1f026983be&attid=0.2&disp=emb&zw>(05/12) > > *From:* David Goldsworthy <[log in to unmask]> > > - Re: BAHASA Digest - 10 May 2010 to 11 May 2010 > (#2010-18)<?ui=2&ik=f96573c9da&view=att&th=1288fd1f026983be&attid=0.3&disp=emb&zw>(05/12) > > *From:* Uli Kozok <[log in to unmask]> > > - Re: BAHASA Digest - 10 May 2010 to 11 May 2010 > (#2010-18)<?ui=2&ik=f96573c9da&view=att&th=1288fd1f026983be&attid=0.4&disp=emb&zw>(05/12) > > *From:* "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> > > - Re: BAHASA Digest - 10 May 2010 to 11 May 2010 > (#2010-18)<?ui=2&ik=f96573c9da&view=att&th=1288fd1f026983be&attid=0.6&disp=emb&zw>(05/12) > > *From:* Katrin Bandel <[log in to unmask]> > > - Re: BAHASA Digest - 10 May 2010 to 11 May 2010 > (#2010-18)<?ui=2&ik=f96573c9da&view=att&th=1288fd1f026983be&attid=0.7&disp=emb&zw>(05/13) > > *From:* Ajiek Kushajatie <[log in to unmask]> > > 2. Infant Language Acquisition of Bahasa (as first language) > > - Re: Infant Language Acquisition of Bahasa (as first > language)<?ui=2&ik=f96573c9da&view=att&th=1288fd1f026983be&attid=0.5&disp=emb&zw>(05/12) > > *From:* Waruno Mahdi <[log in to unmask]> > > - Re: Infant Language Acquisition of Bahasa (as first > language)<?ui=2&ik=f96573c9da&view=att&th=1288fd1f026983be&attid=0.8&disp=emb&zw>(05/13) > > *From:* "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> > > > > > > Browse the BAHASA online archives.< > http://listserv.dartmouth.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=BAHASA> > > > > [image: Anti-Virus Filter]< > http://www.lsoft.com/products/default.asp?item=secured-by-FS&host=LISTSERV.DARTMOUTH.EDU&wa=http://listserv.dartmouth.edu/scripts/wa.exe> > [image: > > Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager]< > http://www.lsoft.com/products/listserv-powered.asp> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 15:34:25 -0400 > From: Jody Diamond <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19) > > Some academic departments have the label Malay/Indonesian to > show that both languages are studied, bukan? The times I have > had Malaysian students in my classes, we could communicate more > or less, but certain key words were consistently different. > > Once Malaysian "became" Indonesian, did certain changes take > place, like loan roots from Javanese or English, e.g. > "memrationalizasikan" in a newspaper. (I once had a friend, a > literature professor in Solo, say "Saya bisa menyupport kamu. > What does that mean? It's from your own language [insert > whatever the Indonesian equivalent of "duh" is here]. > > jody diamond > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 16:02:14 -0400 > From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: Infant Language Acquisition of Bahasa (as first language) > > This Bahasa/(Melayu/Malaysia/Indonesia) is really interesting and > definitely deserves existence as a topic in itself, but, unless I missed > something, no one has addressed the issue originally raised by Svenja abou= > t > infant language acquisition=2E This is not to squelch the discussion -- I= > 'm > mulling things over but traveling in Malaysia now and not always getting > time to put thoughts together -- and hope to contribute to it=2E But does= > > anyone have suggestions for Svenja=3F > > Salam, > Patricia Henry / Pinky > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Svenja V=F6lkert voelkert@LIVE=2EDE > Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 19:28:02 +0200 > To: BAHASA@LISTSERV=2EDARTMOUTH=2EEDU > Subject: Infant Language Acquisition of Bahasa (as first language) > > > Name: Svenja V=F6lkert > Institutional Affiliation: Philipps-Universit=E4t Maburg (Germany) > Email: voelkert@live=2Ede > Fax: > Address: > Position: Student M=2EA=2E Clinical Linguistics (holding a degree in M=2EA= > =2E > Speech Science) > Special (academic, research) interest and expertise: Interested in > linguistics of b=2E indonesia and b=2E melayu=2E Further: special interest= > in > indonesian & malay speech pathology and diagnostic investigation of > speech/language disorders in bahasa=2E > Introductory Note: I would like to get connected with people who are > working in the field of language acquisition of indonesian/malay=2E My > background: I did a B=2EA=2E Language & Communication (linguistics + forei= > gn > languages) including Indonesian as 3rd language (besides English and > Portuguese)=2E After my graduation, I spent one semester at Universitas > Negeri Jakarta in the german department to assist and learn more about > teaching=2E Later, I did an M=2EA=2E Speech Science in Marburg=2E Upon com= > pletion, > I worked 5 months as a voluntary speech pathologist (holding a scholarship= > > from the german ASA-program) in a malaysian school for kids with special > needs=2E > > > > > =20 > > Hello to everyone! > > =20 > > My name is Svenja V=F6lkert and I am currently working on my master thesis= > > (M=2EA=2E Clinical Linguistics, Marburg) about speech pathology (mainly sp= > eech > diagnostics) in Malaysia and Indonesia=2E Therefore, I am looking for any > kind of relevant literature and information about this topic, but > especially about the acquisition of speech & langauge of bahasa (as first > language)=2E Interesting for me is the contrastive view in comparison with= > > german and english language acquisition=2E > > =20 > > If anyone could help me with accessible publications or other hints about > this topic, I would be very pleased=2E > > =20 > > Thank you very much, > > best regards, > > =20 > > Svenja V=F6lkert > =09=09 =09 =09=09 =20 > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > http://redirect=2Egimas=2Enet/=3Fn=3DM1004xSkyDrive2 > Ihre Daten brauchen Platz=3F SkyDrive gibt Ihnen 25 GB - gratis! > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > myhosting=2Ecom - Premium Microsoft=AE Windows=AE and Linux web and applic= > ation > hosting - http://link=2Emyhosting=2Ecom/myhosting > > ------------------------------ > > End of BAHASA Digest - 12 May 2010 to 13 May 2010 (#2010-20) > ************************************************************ > -- Saut Situmorang http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=554828232&ref=profile http://sautsitumorang.multiply.com/ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act -George Orwell