Geoff,

I don't see much advertisement, so perhaps the implied claims of  
caring about people is more justified than I would first perceive.   
Just holding them to their word?  But then I don't take ads  
seriously.  My default position is to ignore or discount them.  I  
sort of plan for ads to be deceptive and am glad when they are not,  
and especially if they actually provide useful information. :-)

That said, would it not be more proper to Encourage and Support Apple  
to use their influence toward improvements rather than "Target  
Apple"?  The flavor of the offer would seem to make us enemies of  
Apple rather than supporters.  That turns me off.  It makes it more  
like mass hysteria than civilized concern.  I'm turned off by the  
implication that Apple is culpable for how its contractors conduct  
their business.  Maybe they are, but such details would be more  
edifying than repeating the same url three times wasting my time to  
discover they are identical when I attempt to become educated. It is  
a very sensitive thing to meddle in the affairs of others, be it how  
one treats his family or how a company treats its employees.  I this  
case it looks like a step further away— how a company/country whom we  
buy from treats its employees.  Vast meddling, greatly facilitated by  
mass deception, is destroying America very quickly.  We would be so  
much more effective to restrain ourselves to improve the world by  
example rather than by force.  Targeting implies force and lopsidedness.

The love of money is the root of much evil.  The World Bank system  
has long subsidized off-shore products from certain places,  
apparently selling them here at a loss with the overall object of  
equalizing the world and promoting globalism.  What is touted as free  
market is often double-speak, actually being more like globally  
managed markets.  That part of the equation should not be ignored.   
Open and secret tax deals make or break lots of deals.  More subtle  
but powerful are issues like the "core vs gap".
    A sample from:
> 	Thomas P.M. Barnett— The Pentagon's New Map—  2004 Feb 6 C-Span  
> broadcast
> 	US Naval War College professor & Strategic Researcher— Military in  
> the 21st Century
> 	<http://www.channelingreality.com/The_Coup/Barnett_NPg1.htm>
> (specifically: <http://www.channelingreality.com/The_Coup/ 
> Barnett_NPg4.htm>)
>
> 		After divulging his mother's reaction to America's preemptive war  
> policy:
>
> *** When we’re talking about preemption, we’re talking inside the  
> gap.  My best evidence?  International criminal court has this  
> article, I think it is Article 98.  It is an exclusionary article,  
> which says in effect, you can be exempted from being sued by  
> another country if you choose to invade that country and engage in  
> acts that could be considered worth suing over.  In effect, it is  
> an interventionary pre-nup.  We have created treaties to take  
> advantage of that exemption under the ICC International Criminal  
> Court.  We have signed about 70 of them at last count.  68 of them  
> are inside the Gap.  So it is no secret about where we are going  
> with this war on terrorism.  And it is no secret where we are not  
> going.  Increasingly we are seeing the definition of a seam of  
> deterrence or suppression for bad things coming out of the gap and  
> into the core: 3 biggies— pandemics, terrorism and illegal  
> narcotics.  So it is not just one ruleset for the United States and  
> another for the rest of the world.  It is understanding that  
> globalization is not a binary outcome.  It is not nowhere or  
> everywhere.  It’s a What and a Where.  Show me where globalization  
> is, I’ll show you connectivity. I’ll show you rule sets.  I’ll show  
> you no mass violence.  Show me where globalization isn’t, I’ll show  
> you much less connectivity, far fewer rulesets and basically all  
> the wars, all the civil wars, all the ethnic cleansing, all the  
> genocide, all the employment of mass rape as a tool of terror, all  
> the situations where children are forced into combat units, I’ll  
> show you the vast majority of the drug producers, the vast majority  
> of transnational terrorist groups that we care about— all inside  
> the red [the gap].  No mystery. ***
>


Indeed I agree that when people recognize a problem, they have a duty  
to act, and for that you are to be greatly commended.  There's no  
room to call Geof Heard apathetic! :-)   I'm just leery of jumping on  
the band-wagon in a flurry.  We have been lied to repeatedly for a  
long time by media and governments using unprecedented levels of  
sophistry.  I could cite many major instances, but that would likely  
just cause more division.  I have known there was a problem for  
decades, but how to find out the truth of hidden things?  I have  
always tried to buy good quality domestic products, but am appalled  
how quickly the masses flock to save a buck without regard to the  
consequences and lies used to promote.  But now we so seldom even  
have a choice.  (One pleasing exception— the last choice we had was  
for a toilet seat.  Gladly, the US made one, of considerably better  
quality, evident only after opening and inspecting, was significantly  
lower priced.)

Claims of Apple-contracted factory workers making each and every  
gadget by hand sounds a bit sensational.  What does that mean?   
Wouldn't modern robotic factories make them even cheaper than this  
slave labor?  And 30 hour shifts doesn't sound rational nor cost  
effective either.  Another sensational item I notice is the headline  
'In China, Human Costs Are Built Into an iPad'.

I smell sensationalism without solid edification.  Lets not be too  
hasty.  Admittedly, I have not studied it a great deal, but with  
China blocking the internet, how can we get open and honest  
communication, not to speak of the language barrier...

Not to put anyone down, but this started with answering a question...  
though it perhaps didn't actually want an answer...

	Sincerely (nevertheless),
	Ben Andrus
__________________________________________________
On 2012 Feb 21, Tue, at 11:59 pm, Geoffrey Heard wrote:

> Hiya Paolo and Andrus
>
> Nobody is saying that Apple is the only one -- however, Apple is an  
> obvious company to target because it pretends to care and it is  
> also very, very big with a worldwide reach. If it comes the heavy  
> on its Chinese suppliers to make things better, then others will  
> follow suit.
>
> It's not like the steak eater bemoaning the fate of cows. It is  
> like the steak eater who demands the biggest steak in the house  
> then wastes half of it, and who won't demand the humane raising and  
> ultimately killing of the cows. I speak as a former cow raiser and  
> killer in a small way myself -- also as a steak eater in modest  
> servings.
>
> The banks, politics, etc. aren't the root of the evil, Andrus. The  
> root of the evil is people who recognize there is a problem and  
> won't act.
>
> You have your tree upside down.
>
> Hey, guys, if you don't want to make a very small gesture that  
> might raise the price of your next Apple device by 50 cents while  
> giving some people a life, then so be it.
>
> Cheers, geoff
>
> At 2:01 PM +0100 21/2/12, paolo savonuzzi wrote:
>> On Tuesday 21 February 2012 at 13:43, Geoffrey Heard wrote:
>>
>>> Apple and working conditions
>>> hello fellow Apple and Nisus users.
>>>
>>> I've signed -- why not join us?
>>>
>>
>> ... because, reading this petition, it seems Apple is the one and  
>> only western company producing goods in China and the sole  
>> responsible for worker's conditions in China?
>
>> Amen Paolo...
>> Not to condone such treatment of anyone for any reason, but to  
>> focus on Apple smells all wrong.
>> Strike at the root, not the fruit!
>> It's too much like those calling to quit killing cows while they  
>> eat their steak.
>> Why not look at international banks and politics that have  
>> facilitated, if not fomented, the climate for years...