There are 5 messages totaling 784 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. saya vs. aku
2. BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) Re: saya vs. aku (3)
3. BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8)
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:29:48 +0700
From: E B <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: saya vs. aku
What's the proper personal pronoun to use when addressing servants or other
of one's workers in West Java, speaking Indonesian?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 07:10:15 +0000
From: George Quinn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) Re: saya vs. aku
I've just come back from a visit to Ternate in north Maluku. There I was bemused to hear "saya" still being used in some contexts as a respectful word for "yes". E.g. Quinn: "Gunung Gamalama indah sekali!" Local citizen agreeing: "Saya."
I recall that this use of "saya" used to be fairly common in Java 50 years ago when younger or lower status people addressed older or higher status people (e.g. servant addressing boss), but it seems to have disappeared... except in north Maluku! Is it still heard elsewhere in Indonesia?
--
Dr George Quinn,
Adjunct Professor & Visiting Fellow, ANU College of Asia and the Pacific,
Member, ANU Emeritus Faculty,
Australian National University,
Canberra ACT 0200,
Australia.
** To view some of my shorter studies on Javanese language, literature & religion go to:
http://anu.academia.edu/GQuinn
** For information on Canberra's Balai Bahasa Indonesia (ACT) go to:
http://bbiact.wordpress.com
________________________________________
From: Indonesian language list [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of BAHASA automatic digest system [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 31 July 2013 14:00
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8)
There are 6 messages totaling 393 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. saya vs. aku (5)
2. BAHASA Digest - 28 Jul 2013 to 29 Jul 2013 (#2013-7)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 21:49:49 +0900
From: Ajiek Kushajatie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) Re: saya vs. aku
Well, in Jawa Tengah & Jawa Timur, people still using the word DALEM (means = SAYA) to agree when speaking with elderly or people they respect.
It is funny that they translate it into Bahasa Indonesia ………
All the best,
Ajiek Stoneman
On Jul 31, 2013, at 4:10 PM, George Quinn <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I've just come back from a visit to Ternate in north Maluku. There I was bemused to hear "saya" still being used in some contexts as a respectful word for "yes". E.g. Quinn: "Gunung Gamalama indah sekali!" Local citizen agreeing: "Saya."
> I recall that this use of "saya" used to be fairly common in Java 50 years ago when younger or lower status people addressed older or higher status people (e.g. servant addressing boss), but it seems to have disappeared... except in north Maluku! Is it still heard elsewhere in Indonesia?
> --
> Dr George Quinn,
> Adjunct Professor & Visiting Fellow, ANU College of Asia and the Pacific,
> Member, ANU Emeritus Faculty,
> Australian National University,
> Canberra ACT 0200,
> Australia.
>
> ** To view some of my shorter studies on Javanese language, literature & religion go to:
> http://anu.academia.edu/GQuinn
>
> ** For information on Canberra's Balai Bahasa Indonesia (ACT) go to:
> http://bbiact.wordpress.com
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Indonesian language list [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of BAHASA automatic digest system [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 31 July 2013 14:00
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8)
>
> There are 6 messages totaling 393 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. saya vs. aku (5)
> 2. BAHASA Digest - 28 Jul 2013 to 29 Jul 2013 (#2013-7)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 21:50:52 +0700
From: Saut Situmorang <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8)
I never encounter the use of "Saya" in the context of Master-Slave
relationship. The word "Hamba" is usually used. When "Sahaya/Saya" used to
address a feudal master, it is the same as using it to address a Kepala
kampung or university rector in contemporary Indonesia: Formality's sake.
-Saut Situmorang
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 11:00 AM, BAHASA automatic digest system <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> There are 6 messages totaling 393 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. saya vs. aku (5)
> 2. BAHASA Digest - 28 Jul 2013 to 29 Jul 2013 (#2013-7)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 12:05:47 +0700
> From: E B <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: saya vs. aku
>
> Doesn't "saya" have an etymology of meaning "slave" or "servant", the same
> way the "abdi" can mean "servant" or "I" in Javanese?
>
> In Malay, they often just use "I" instead of "saya". One could probably
> get away with that in Indonesia; but I haven't tried it, yet.
>
> Those are very good links (
> http://www.ausdag.blogspot.com.au/search/label/Aku%20dan%20Saya &
>
> http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/showthread.php/20880-Bahasa-Kita?p=221283&viewfull=1#post221283
> & http://bahasakita.com/pronoun-substitutes/ )
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:18:46 +0900
> From: AJIEK KUSHAJATIE <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: saya vs. aku
>
> SAYA is formal
> AKU is imformal
>
> Also, SAYA is when you talk with elder people and people you respect.
> AKU use to friends ....
>
> Good luck ...
>
> Ajiek Kushajatie Stoneman
> Tokyo - Japan
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> On 30 Jul 2013, at 04:21, Jody Diamond <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > diamond
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 18:13:26 +0700
> From: Saut Situmorang <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 28 Jul 2013 to 29 Jul 2013 (#2013-7)
>
> When using "Indonesian" language (NOT "Bahasa" Indonesia!), "Saya" is
> usually used in a formal context and when speaking to someone much older in
> age (especially one that you do not know that well) than you. Outside of
> these (including in literary works), most Indonesians like myself use
> "Aku". In the eastern part of Indonesia (Maluku and Papua), people use
> "Beta" for both.
>
> -Saut Situmorang
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:01 AM, BAHASA automatic digest system <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > There are 2 messages totaling 87 lines in this issue.
> >
> > Topics of the day:
> >
> > 1. saya vs. aku (2)
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 19:21:49 +0000
> > From: Jody Diamond <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: saya vs. aku
> >
> > Is there a general rule or preferred practice for using either saya or
> aku
> > as the first person pronoun? I have heard many opinions on this. Is one
> > better for writing, another for conversation?
> >
> > Pendapat welcome.
> > jody diamond
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 19:47:10 -0700
> > From: David Goldsworthy <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: saya vs. aku
> >
> > Depends on regional context. I don't know about the rest of the country,
> > but I learnt from experience that in Central Java aku, in spoken
> > Indonesian, still retains its Javanese nuances for many if not most
> > Javanese and thus should be avoided in favour of saya when addressing
> > someone to whom you would not use 'aku' if speaking Javanese. So in that
> > respect, it is not interchangeable with saya, not in Central Java anyway.
> > In pure, non-regionalised bahasa baku, aku seems most prevalent in poetry
> > and popular lyrics.
> > http://www.ausdag.blogspot.com.au/search/label/Aku%20dan%20Saya
> >
> > DavidG
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Jody Diamond <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Sent: Tuesday, 30 July 2013 5:21 AM
> > Subject: saya vs. aku
> >
> >
> > Is there a general rule or preferred practice for using either saya or
> aku
> > as the first person pronoun? I have heard many opinions on this. Is one
> > better for writing, a
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of BAHASA Digest - 28 Jul 2013 to 29 Jul 2013 (#2013-7)
> > ***********************************************************
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://sautsitumorang.wordpress.com/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 23:32:33 +0900
> From: Ajiek Kushajatie <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: saya vs. aku
>
> You are right, SAYA was from the word SAHAYA, means SLAVE.
>
> The old days, when we speak to people of a very high ranking or to a king,
> we have to call ourself with SAHAYA.
>
> Then, in Bahasa Melayu (Indonesian) we shorten it became SAYA.
>
> The same with the words SAHAJA -- > SAJA and BAHARU ---> BARU and
> DAHULU --> DULU.
>
> All the best,
> Ajiek Stoneman, Tokyo
> -----------------------------
>
>
> On Jul 30, 2013, at 2:05 PM, E B <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Doesn't "saya" have an etymology of meaning "slave" or "servant", the
> same way the "abdi" can mean "servant" or "I" in Javanese?
> >
> > In Malay, they often just use "I" instead of "saya". One could probably
> get away with that in Indonesia; but I haven't tried it, yet.
> >
> > Those are very good links (
> http://www.ausdag.blogspot.com.au/search/label/Aku%20dan%20Saya &
> http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/showthread.php/20880-Bahasa-Kita?p=221283&viewfull=1#post221283 &
> http://bahasakita.com/pronoun-substitutes/ )
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 19:13:09 -0400
> From: Sri Wilkinson <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: saya vs. aku
>
> Hallo there
>
> 'Saya' is used in a formal situation/context, it is also used when you
> speak/write to a person you respect or should respect ( including the
> eldery, people in authority and people consider in higher position). As
> Indonesians consider the eldery, people in authority and people in higher
> position should be respected and should be spoken to in a formal way,
> therefore you should address yourself with 'saya'.
>
> 'Aku' is used in an informal situation/context; between friends and equals.
>
> I hope this answers your question.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Sri Wilkinson
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 19:28:15 -0400
> From: Sri Wilkinson <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: saya vs. aku
>
> Dear Jody
>
> 'Saya' is used in a formal situation/context. It is also used to
> speak/write to a person/people you respect or should respect (the eldery,
> people in authority and your senior/people in higher position). As
> Indonesians consider the eldery, people in authority and people in high
> position should be respected and should be spoken in a formal way
> therefore you should ddressed yourself with personal pronoun 'saya'.
>
> I hope this answers your question.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Sri Wilkinson
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8)
> ***********************************************************
>
--
http://sautsitumorang.wordpress.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 14:23:32 -0700
From: David Goldsworthy <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) Re: saya vs. aku
In further response to the original question, I always tell my students that there is no single correct answer. Due the the wide range of varying practices from one area to another with respect to so much of Indonesian, it is best to wait to see what the local practice is whatever area you happen to be in. Learn to gauge how they use personal pronouns and terms of address. In the meantime, always err on the side of caution and stick with saya - unless you're writing poetry or song lyrics of course.
________________________________
From: Ajiek Kushajatie <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, 31 July 2013 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) Re: saya vs. aku
Well, in Jawa Tengah & Jawa Timur, people still using the word DALEM (means = SAYA) to agree when speaking with elderly or people they respect.
It is funny that they translate it into Bahasa Indonesia ………
All the best,
Ajiek Stoneman
On Jul 31, 2013, at 4:10 PM, George Quinn <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I've just come back from a visit to Ternate in north Maluku. There I was bemused to hear "saya" still being used in some contexts as a respectful word for "yes". E.g. Quinn: "Gunung Gamalama indah sekali!" Local citizen agreeing: "Saya."
> I recall that this use of "saya" used to be fairly common in Java 50 years ago when younger or lower status people addressed older or higher status people (e.g. servant addressing boss), but it seems to have disappeared... except in north Maluku! Is it still heard elsewhere in Indonesia?
> --
> Dr George Quinn,
> Adjunct Professor & Visiting Fellow, ANU College of Asia and the Pacific,
> Member, ANU Emeritus Faculty,
> Australian National University,
> Canberra ACT 0200,
> Australia.
>
> ** To view some of my shorter studies on Javanese language, literature & religion go to:
> http://anu.academia.edu/GQuinn
>
> ** For information on Canberra's Balai Bahasa Indonesia (ACT) go to:
> http://bbiact.wordpress.com
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Indonesian language list [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of BAHASA automatic digest system [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 31 July 2013 14:00
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8)
>
> There are 6 messages totaling 393 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. saya vs. aku (5)
> 2. BAHASA Digest - 28 Ju
------------------------------
End of BAHASA Digest - 30 Jul 2013 to 31 Jul 2013 (#2013-9)
***********************************************************