Hi Tim, If I could offer some input, but first some background - I have never done the Salatiga program, but after graduating from Indonesian studies at Griffith Uni in 1993, I went to live in the hills outside Salatiga with a Javanese host family. There I spent time just living from my own savings and experiencing Javanese life, returning multiple times during the subsequent few years, then eventually marrying into a Javanese family also in the outskirts of Salatiga. So based in this experience I offer some comments below which may or may not be the opinions of others. Each comment comes after the ‘To BAHASA members’ descriptions - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SCENARIO 1: (a fellow customer at a warung (eating stall) in town. Ari Wahyuni, male, 22 y.o. "You're sitting next to each other on a bench with other customers, eating your meals. He is neatly dressed, and looks like an office worker. He asks you a polite small talk question, and you reply and ask him something too. YOUR CHOICE:"________________________ " [e.g. to say "Have YOU...? // Did YOU...?" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ <To BAHASA members> : In Scenario 1 "stranger in warung" above, I'm especially interested in judgements or comments on each of these terms: - kamu (too familiar here, from the 20-21 y.o. Australian?) - anda (It is little used between Indon native speakers in face to face conversation. But Indons sometimes address foreigners as Anda. Is it appropriate coming from the 20-21 y.o. Aust, here? - "mas" (None of the Australians knew “mas” before they arrived in Salatiga, so I’m also interested in what other choices of theirs might be acceptable) - "Ari" (if they had learned his name) - "mas Ari DG says: Ideally, the student would know about ‘Mas’. However, as an Australian fresh from university, they will be most prepared with Anda (the ‘safe’ option). Use of ‘Anda’ may be met with a slightly bemused expression. Given that he looks like an office worker, but obviously of similar age with the Australian student, Bapak would be ok too but Ari may still react a bit bemused, being only 22 and probably still single, to which Ari might (hopefully) reply with something like ‘Panggil saja Ari.’ From then on, ‘Ari’ would be quite acceptable; even better if preceded by ‘Mas’ ( don’t think you could go one day in Central Java without being exposed to the use and meaning of Mas / Mbak, so it wouldn’t take long for the Aust student to gain of knowledge of these terms of address). Of course, Ari may reciprocate with Anda or even ‘You’ (e.g. Apa You lagi kuliah di UKSW?’), but this may be more reflective of a Javanese uncertainty with exactly which level of pronoun to address the foreigner (Try learning to speak Javanese in Java, and you’ll know what I mean) and thus not advisable for the foreigner to follow suit. Though many Central Javanese youth are comfortable with ‘kamu’, particularly those more attune to the more egalitarian styles of Indonesian spoken in the capital, I would advise learners to avoid this until on much more familiar terms with the other party. So, in the absence of ‘Mas’ I would choose Anda and then ‘Ari’ if invited to do so. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SCENARIO 2 a becak driver in town. Ahmad Fahmi, male, 50 y.o. You want to go from the main campus of your university to the other campus. You take a becak, for the first time during your stay, and during your journey you and the becak driver talk together a little." YOUR CHOICE: "________________________ " [e.g. to say "Have YOU...? // Did YOU...?" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <To BAHASA members>: In Scenario 2 "becak driver" above: I'm especially interested in judgements or comments on each of these terms: - bapak. [Does the big age difference between 20-21 y.o. student and 50 y.o. becak driver automatically require "'bapak"? Or is the full form 'bapak' over-respectful from a customer to a becak driver? It seems more deferential than vocative short form "pak". - anda [again, it’s a non-native choice, but coming from an Australian?) - mas - pak [I think of ‘pak’ as only acceptable in the vocative slot, e.g. "Pagi, Pak". But one Indonesian living in Europe recently called me "pak" in the pronoun slot throughout a long email message to me. That made me wonder if the Australian students could get away with it here.] DG says: In Central Java, although Javanese may be comfortable with social structures allowing them to place themselves at a certain position in relation to other individuals based on occupation, for the foreigner, the best choice is to always be as polite as possible with anyone. Also, I know first hand of Javanese who, when speaking to older becak drivers, will routinely address them politely using ‘Bapak’. So my advice, always go with ‘Bapak’ when addressing any male obviously somewhat older than oneself. Mas is perfectly acceptable if the driver is obviously a young guy of similar age with the Australian student. In the students’ absence of Mas, just use Bapak’ even if he’s young. It just seems (to me) preferable to Anda which seems stiflingly distant. Anda again is the 'safe' option. 'Kamu' is completely inappropriate for an Australian student of 21 years to use with any Javanese adult, no matter what social position they hold. BTW, ‘’Pak‘in the pronoun slot seems to be somewhat colloquial. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SCENARIO 3 a domestic servant in your homestay house Siti Hartati, female, 18 y.o. "You have seen each other around the house most days during the last six weeks, as she goes about her cleaning duties. You sometimes exchange greetings, and occasionally a couple of brief small-talk remarks." "YOUR CHOICE:"________________________ " [e.g. to say "Have YOU...? // Did YOU...? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ <<To BAHASA members>>: In Scenario 3 "servant" above, I'm especially interested in judgements and comments on each of these terms in the pronoun slot: mbak [Again, as none of the Australians knew “mbak” before they arrived in Salatiga, I’m also interested in what other choices of theirs might be acceptable) - Siti [if the 20-21 y.o. Australian student had learned the servant’s name] - mbak Siti - kamu - anda While a domestic servant will be quite used to being addressed in a low form such as ‘kamu’, other Javanese may still use more polite forms such as ‘Siti’ and ‘mbak’. In Central Java, ‘mbak’ is still polite and perfectly acceptable for a foreigner to address an 18 yr old pembantu using ‘mbak’. Neverthelss, for the student having not known the term ‘mbak’, I think the safest option is just the first name, Siti, rather than 'kamu'. Using ‘Anda’ will again be met with some (though not obvious to the student) bemusement on the part of the pembantu, but again is the 'safe' option. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SCENARIO 4 a local university student/ staff member of your language school Benny Pribadi, male, 22 y.o. "He is a local university student who also works part-time in the computer lab at your language school. You've seen him in the lab on most days during your six weeks there, and you often greet each other. Occasionally he has helped you with something, e.g. if there is a problem with the printer. You ask him over to help you with a minor computer problem, and this time you chat a little too." YOUR CHOICE: "________________________ " [e.g. to say "Have YOU...? // Did YOU...?" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <To BAHASA members>: In Scenario 4 "student-cum-staff member" above, I'm especially interested in judgements or comments on each of these terms in the pronoun slot: - kamu - anda - mas [Again, none of the Australians knew “mas” before they arrived in Salatiga, so I’m also interested in what other choices of theirs might be acceptable) - Mas Benny [If the Australian student had learned this person’s name.] - Benny I think my comments from the first scenario apply to this scenario as wel, although being a Uni student and obviously of similar age, Bapak would be inappropriate. So initially I'd go with the safe option 'Anda' until a more appropriate term is established through the course of conversation. I think the safest thing to assume when speaking Indonesian to Central Javanese, is that they speak Indonesian (generally) as Javanese. Thus Javanese norms of politeness still very much influence pronoun choices. Even 1st person choices can be affected in the same way. I remember being corrected quietly when I chose the term 'aku' rather than 'saya' when addressing another Javanese adult in Indonesian, as 'aku' is also the low (kasar) form of the 1st person in Javanese. Hope this is of use. Typed rather hurriedly without much time to really think it through. I'd be very interested in what others think. Regards, DavidG -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------