--- Forwarded Message from [log in to unmask] --- >Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:31:55 -0500 >From: [log in to unmask] >To: Language Learning and Technology International Information Forum <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: Re: #8076.5 Media distribution and copyright (!) >References: <[log in to unmask]> >In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> >User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.6 Georges, If it is any consolation to you, I asked my son about paper versus on-line workbooks last year before our department placed our text order. My son, who was in the middle of a college language course, agreed with you. He'd rather have a hard copy on paper that he can keep and refer to, one that he can work in even when the dorm's T-1 line is down. It surprised me that a native of the on-line world would prefer a paper book, but there it is, for whatever one student's opinion is worth. As to the problem of copying the answer key in workbook manuals, I tell my students to use it. I explain that doing the work and subsequently correcting their answers in a different color ink shows me that they are on the path to becoming life-long learners, surely a buzz word at other colleges besides mine. Students who show no evidence of self-correction with the answer key get a lower grade on their workbook assignment than those who do show evidence. Janice ---------------------- Janice Rodriguez Instructor Department of Modern Foreign Languges and Literatures Albright College 13 and Bern Streets Reading, PA 19612-5234 610-921-2381 Quoting LLTI-Editor <[log in to unmask]>: > --- Forwarded Message from "Detiveaux, Georges J" > <[log in to unmask]> --- > > >Subject: RE: #8076.2 Media distribution and copyright (!) > >Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 13:26:53 -0600 > >Thread-Topic: #8076.2 Media distribution and copyright (!) > >Thread-Index: AcXlXcmwLBuJFGi1SROhlwVNd4js+QAAK9Fg > >From: "Detiveaux, Georges J" <[log in to unmask]> > >To: "Language Learning and Technology International Information Forum" > <[log in to unmask]> > > With regards to online workbooks and lab manuals, it might also be > useful to consider an argument that has certainly been made before: > there is something to be said about paper and pen practice and > manipulating a real book in front of you, especially when learning a new > language. When's the last time you curled up in front of the fire with a > good streaming audio file whose progress is displayed on your LCD > screen? And how can you turn back to that page whose words and layout > are stuck in your head even 10 years from now and fondly recall the day > you learned how to describe the members of your family using possessive > adjectives if your online subscription expired about the same time your > mom stopped doing your laundry? > > Our Spanish courses use the Quia service for their WB/LM, and I must > admit that I am very impressed with the grading features and the > one-stop-shopping environment... just get on the 'net and go to it. For > DL or flex/hybrid courses, I suppose this is a godsend. Yet, I am > reluctant to switch to it for our traditional in-person French courses > for this very reason above. Don't get me wrong: I embrace technology > wholeheartedly and exploit it when and where I can: every dead horse we > beat in class is met with the promise of further beatings on CD-Rom > exercises, on Web exercises, 'flash' vocabulary flashcards, and in the > lab in lots of other ways. I just can't see myself doing away with the > practice of pen-to-paper writing altogether. As long as my tests are on > paper, so will at least some of the necessary preparations for them. > > Also, all too often, students these days treat anything they 'write' on > a computer (job applications, shipping instructions in purchases, > greeting cards, etc.) like they're in a chat room or sending an SMS > where they can use emoticons... ; ) and abbreviations... l8r and leave > out accents... resume. They have no understanding of levels of language, > and perhaps by insisting on pen and paper with which to react to their > audio lab work, they will take it that much more seriously. As the lab > coordinator, I certainly don't mind making that audio available in just > about whatever format the student or teacher wants, as long as the > publisher licenses us to do so. You want *.mp3's? No problem. A plain > audio CD? Sure! An Aldis lamp translation? Got it. (To me, that just > comes with the territory of my job.) > > I also am sympathetic to those who have seen students just going to the > 'answer key' in the back of the LM/WB to simply transfer the answers > into their current chapter's blanks. No learning here, right? A trained > monkey can do that. But there's a solution- custom publishing (Primis, > for example), which allows to add and leave out desired sections of > books & have them printed to suit your own needs (specific chapters, > answer keys, etc.), or I suppose, at the very least, you could go 'old > school' on them and rip out the offending pages on the first day of > class for a dramatic ice-breaker. > > Then again, maybe you could do the lab manual portion (usually very > short answer activities) with a Quia-type service and keep the workbook > (activities requiring longer, more open-ended answers) on paper... > > Anyone else dealing with this question right now? Should I be ashamed of > myself for having such an opinion as the > language-technology-person-on-campus!? > > ; ) l8r... I mean... > > Warmest regards, > > Georges Detiveaux > > Language Lab Coordinator / Instructor of French & ESL > > [log in to unmask] > > > > Cy-Fair College, LRNC-203 > > 9191 Barker Cypress Road > > Cypress, TX 77433 > > > > http://faculty.nhmccd.edu/gdetiveaux > > phone 281.290.5975 > > fax 281.290.5282 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Language Learning and Technology International Information Forum > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of LLTI-Editor > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:32 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: #8076.2 Media distribution and copyright (!) > > --- Forwarded Message from "Read Gilgen" <[log in to unmask]> --- > > >Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 11:05:16 -0600 > >From: "Read Gilgen" <[log in to unmask]> > >To: <[log in to unmask]> > >Subject: Re: #8076.1 Media distribution and copyright (!) > > Right on, Joseph! > > >>> [log in to unmask] 11/8/2005 12:17:44 PM >>> > --- Forwarded Message from Joseph O Kautz <[log in to unmask]> --- > > >Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 11:15:19 -0800 (PST) > >From: Joseph O Kautz <[log in to unmask]> > >To: Language Learning and Technology International Information Forum > > <[log in to unmask]> > >Subject: Re: Media distribution and copyright > >In-Reply-To: > <[log in to unmask]> > > > Charlie Long makes an interesting proposition and I could not help > responding with how this fashionable, campus-in-itunes approach would > affect us. An All Itunes solution would limit how we can use digital > media. We incorporate audio and video files from publishers into our > LMS. > We also augment the content with text tracks done in Magpie, etc. To > do > didacticization well, we need the actual files, not a link into a > "free" > proprietary content management system. Blackboard used to be free > too. > Students are already gouged by publishers. Delivering media from > Itunes > will be seen as a new way to make money for the publisher at the > students' > expense. > The way we handle digital files now, I can guarantee my students a > minimal level of > quality when I reformat publishers' audio/video files. In the hands > of > publishers who will be overly concerned with bandwidth issues and > their > bottom line, audio/video quality will be of secondary concern and we > will > end up with unusable files that students pay for anyway. > > Kiss the language lab good-bye on campus with this kind of delivery > model. > Bean counters would be wise to ask, why do we need a Language Lab when > we > have IPods and Itunes to benevolently take the place of Language Labs. > > Finally, since when do we trust multinational corporations to intepret > fair use for us? Itunes is far too young to be accepted as a standard > for > content management. There are/will be open source clones in the very > near > future. I agree with Charlie Long on many of his points, but I have > less > faith in corporate approaches to facilitating 2nd language > acquisition. > > I guess as long as I can get copies of the publishers' media for our > own > use, Itunes could be helpful. Maybe TOO helpful. Joseph > > > > On Thu, 3 Nov 2005, Charlie Long wrote: > > > > body{margin-left:10px;margin-right:10px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px > ;} > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > We spend a lot of time implementing ways to deliver and organize > > copyrighted audio and video materials to and for our students. We > make > > password protected web pages, we post files to course management > systems. > > Students have to get on to our networks and behind firewalls in order > to > > access them. We have to write for permissions, worry about what we > are > > doing is legal, etc. All of this takes time and energy away from > teaching > > and learning. > > > > I would like to offer an open suggestion to Publishers. > > > > iTunes is a wonderful media management system, it organizes, it is > > searchable, it is cross platform, and it is FREE! Publishers should > make > > their audio and video available through an iTunes Educational Media > > Store. A keycode, along the lines of the Quia, Inc. or Pepsi bottle > cap > > model, could be included with the textbook to allow for the > downloading > > of the material. Alternately, a reasonable fee could be charged for > used > > text books. > > > > If IALLT, AATSP, AATF, CALICO, etc. all approached the publishers > and > > Apple, this could happen. The advantage to the publishers is great. > They > > would not have to publish and package CD's or DVD's, saving them lots > of > > money, hopefully passing along the savings to the students. > > > > Students and teachers alike would have their own copies of the > materials > > to play when and where needed. The built-in copyright protection of > the > > iTunes store limits the unauthorized distribution of the materials. > > Students are familiar with the interface. If EMINEM and DESPERATE > > HOUSEWIVES can be distributed so easily to so many people, why can't > the > > Lesson 5 listening comprehension or the fourth video episode be done > as > > well? > > > > I hoping that there are publishers who read this list and that they > will > > consider this option. I imagine that there are individuals in IALLT > who > > will know how to best approach the people who make such decisions. > > > > Imagine all students having easy access to all the audio and video > that a > > textbook has to offer without the institution having to do anything > and > > without the publisher having to do any shrink wrapping. > > > > ceL > > > > ***************************************************************** > > Charles E. Long, Head > > International Learning Center > > -International Study Programs > > -The Language lab > > Choate Rosemary Hall 333 Christian Street Wallingford, CT > 06492 > > > > "Ask not what you can do for technology, but what technology can do > for > > you." > > "Most people in the world are foreigners." > > ***************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Joseph Kautz > Academic Technology Specialist - Stanford Language Center > Meyer 280B - Stanford, CA 94305-3101 - (650) 725-1615 > > The world is not to be put in order; the world is order incarnate. > It is for us to put ourselves in unison with this order. > Henry Miller > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > *********************************************** > LLTI is a service of IALLT, the International Association for > Language Learning, and The Consortium for Language Teaching and > Learning (http://consortium.dartmouth.edu). > Join IALLT at http://iallt.org. > Otmar Foelsche, LLTI-Editor ([log in to unmask]) > *********************************************** > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.