--- Forwarded Message from Nina Garrett <[log in to unmask]> --- >Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:45:12 -0500 >To: Language Learning and Technology International Information Forum <[log in to unmask]> >From: Nina Garrett <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: Re: #7807.1 placement test Placing incoming students (!) >In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Yale will institute a new version of its FL requirement next fall that includes some provisions similar to those at Luther College. Incoming students who have studied a language in high-school and want to fulfill the FLR in that language will take placement tests; those who can place into a second-semester course or higher will have to pass the fourth-semester course, but those who place into a first-semester course will only have to pass a third-semester course. This still allows for the possibility that false beginners will deliberately do poorly on the placement test so that they will place into a first-semester course, figuring that doing semesters 1-2-3 will be easier on their GPA than doing semesters 2-3-4. However, the departments offering the commonly taught languages are arranging to offer second-semester courses in the fall, so that when teachers spot the sand-baggers (love that term!) they can push them out into second-semester courses so that they will still have to complete the fourth-semester course. Students who wish to fulfill the FLR in a language they've never had any exposure to will have to pass a third-semester course. (Yale offers 50 languages, 27 of them with at least a four-semester sequence.) Major new proviso: Up until this year, students coming in with a language AP score of 4 or 5 were considered to have automatically fulfilled the FLR. From now on, even these students will be required (1) to take one semester of a language course at an advanced level or (2) to pass a second-semester course in a different language. I.e., no students will be allowed to "place out" of all language study at Yale. Interestingly, our research has shown that in the past 4 years, 87% of these "place-out" students took language courses anyway -- either advanced work in the AP language, or a new language, or both. We're looking forward to tracking the results of the new FLR in all its complexity.... Best, Nina At 04:36 PM 2/22/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--- Forwarded Message from "Dennis D. Magnuson" <[log in to unmask]> --- > > >In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> > >References: <[log in to unmask]> > >Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 18:56:22 -0600 > >To: Language Learning and Technology International Information Forum ><[log in to unmask]> > >From: "Dennis D. Magnuson" <[log in to unmask]> > >Subject: Re: #7807 placement test Placing incoming students > >LLTI Colleagues and others interested in Language Placement, > >Like many other institutions, Luther College for many years faced >this problem of false beginners--we used to call them >"sand-baggers--who filled up our lower level courses, especially the >beginning level. The problem, as we ultimately discovered, was that >we merely stated that a student had to take ANY number of credits in >a second language, regardless of where they started. > >As a result, we too had "non-language types" just taking the 101/102 >steps (maybe adding 201 or 202). The consequences were that we would >have, say for Spanish, 7 sections of 101, 4-5 of 102, and 2 or 3 of >Sp 201. > >Several years ago we made some curricular changes and got faculty >support for a minimum second language requirement that stated the 3 >semester course was needed for anyone who had studied at least one >year of that same language in high school. In effect, it provided an >incentive for those students to complete their requirement with only >one course--but at the third semester level. BTW, for those who wish >to take a new language, i.e., not continue with one that they had >studied in high school, the requirement is still 101 and 102. That >allows for students to try languages that they might not have had in >high school (think Norwegian at Luther College!, though it could be >Italian, Russian, Hebrew, or a couple of others). > >The result: we now have more or less flip-flopped our enrolments. >This past fall we had 3 sections of 101, 4 of 102, and 6 of 201 (we >have had as high as 7 of 201). > >Although we have not totally deterred the false beginners, we feel >that we have made great strides toward a more normal pattern based on >entering high school backgrounds. > >I have often thought that we might even add another item and state >that only those taking 201 or 202 would be considered for graduation >or departmental honors, though the politics in that kind of thinking >are not for the faint of heart. > >In any event, to just state A MINIMUM will get just that. Set the >bar "a bit" higher, and it just may give the kind of results that we >have experienced. > >For those with a full two year language requirement (or higher), I >presume they may have even fewer problems than we used to. I look >forward to reading how others have dealt with this problem of the >false beginner. > >Dennis D. Magnuson >Assoc. Prof. of Spanish >Luther College >Decorah, IA 52101 >(319) 387-2160 >[log in to unmask] > >Responding to Placement Test Query: > > > >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:00:26 -0500 > >>To: [log in to unmask] > >>From: Hiroyo Saito <[log in to unmask]> > > >Subject: placement test > >Haverford, PA 19041 [v011] > >Hello, > > > >The Spanish department asked me to post this message. > > > >"The department of Spanish is contemplating the possibility of > >changing our placement procedure for next year. We would like to know > >if other language departments at other institutions have specific > >policies related to the selection of students at the beginning level. > >Do, for instance, some of these universities require a minimum score > >at the placement test for students who have already been exposed to > >the language at the high school level?" > > > >The Spanish department has been placing students who have taken > >Spanish in high school but who do not get a minimum score for the > >intermediate class in the placement test into the beginner's level > >along with students who have never taken Spanish before. > >The number of students in the beginner's level has been increasing > >and they do not have enough staff members to create a new class for > >false beginners. They do not want to set a minimum score for the > >beginner's level because they do not want to close to the door to the > >students who have never taken Spanish before. They would like to > >accept the true beginners, but they would like to limit the number of > >false beginners somehow. They are seeking ideas which allow them to > >do this. > >If you have any experience in similar situations, please let me know. > >I would appreciate your inputs. > >Thank you. > >Hiroyo > > > >-- > >*********************************** > >Hiroyo Saito > >Director of Language Learning Center > >Haverford College > >370 Lancaster Avenue > >Haverford, PA 19041 > >(610)896-4971 > >[log in to unmask] > >http://www.haverford.edu/llc > >************************************ > > > > > > >*********************************************** > LLTI is a service of IALLT, the International Association for >Language Learning, and The Consortium for Language Teaching and >Learning (http://consortium.dartmouth.edu). >Join IALLT at http://iallt.org. >Otmar Foelsche, LLTI-Editor ([log in to unmask]) >*********************************************** Nina Garrett, Director Center for Language Study Yale University P.O. Box 208349 New Haven, Connecticut 06520-8349 Tel: (203) 432-8196 Fax. (203) 432-4485 [log in to unmask] http://www.cls.yale.edu *********************************************** LLTI is a service of IALLT, the International Association for Language Learning, and The Consortium for Language Teaching and Learning (http://consortium.dartmouth.edu). Join IALLT at http://iallt.org. Otmar Foelsche, LLTI-Editor ([log in to unmask]) ***********************************************