Indeed - I have heard about saya used to politely answer something like 'yes' in ternate, but right after reading this message I was surprised to hear in my home in jakarta the following exchange:
oma: noura!
noura: apaan?
oma: saya oma, gitu jawabnya
noura: o iya, saya omaa
Not that this is regularly taught, but apparently it is still used at least occasionally, like here, when the child (noura)'s initial response was considered rude ("apaan!?" is a rather "what, why are you bothering me?" kind of response)
Also, it is relevant here I think to mention that the issue of first person reference in Indonesian is significantly more complex than just 'saya' vs 'aku'. other ways of referring to first person include use of personal names (reportedly more common amoung women), kin terms (oma, ibu, kakak, etc), gue/gua, as well as some other terms like ana/ane (<arabic?) --> aye (betawi), eke (<dutch? <bahasa waria?). even 'akika' and 'daku' are occasionally encountered. Many young people I know use all of these in a nearly description-defying way. I have given a talk on the topic at ICAL in Bali last year, to be developed into a full paper later.
Nick
On Aug 3, 2013, at 11:01 AM, BAHASA automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> There are 2 messages totaling 1290 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. BAHASA Digest - 31 Jul 2013 to 1 Aug 2013 (#2013-10) (2)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 22:32:07 +0700
> From: Saut Situmorang <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 31 Jul 2013 to 1 Aug 2013 (#2013-10)
>
> "Nothing new about this usage of saya as we were taught to use SAYA to mean
> 'yes' when answering a call from our parents."
>
> Agreed. I still remember when I was a little kid in Medan, many friends of
> mine at school as well as at the Asrama Tentara my family was living then
> used "Saya" to mean "yes" when answering teachers or parents. It's
> considered very polite.
>
> -Saut Situmorang
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 11:00 AM, BAHASA automatic digest system <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> There is 1 message totaling 1106 lines in this issue.
>>
>> Topics of the day:
>>
>> 1. BAHASA Digest - 30 Jul 2013 to 31 Jul 2013 (#2013-9)
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:47:46 +0100
>> From: Sallehuddin Abdullah Sani <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 30 Jul 2013 to 31 Jul 2013 (#2013-9)
>>
>> Nothing new about this usage of saya as we were taught to use SAYA to mean
>> 'yes' when answering a call from our parents.
>>
>>
>> On 1 August 2013 05:00, BAHASA automatic digest system <
>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> There are 5 messages totaling 784 lines in this issue.
>>>
>>> Topics of the day:
>>>
>>> 1. saya vs. aku
>>> 2. BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) Re: saya vs.
>> aku
>>> (3)
>>> 3. BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8)
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:29:48 +0700
>>> From: E B <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: Re: saya vs. aku
>>>
>>> What's the proper personal pronoun to use when addressing servants or
>> other
>>> of one's workers in West Java, speaking Indonesian?
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 07:10:15 +0000
>>> From: George Quinn <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) Re:
>> saya
>>> vs. aku
>>>
>>> I've just come back from a visit to Ternate in north Maluku. There I was
>>> bemused to hear "saya" still being used in some contexts as a respectful
>>> word for "yes". E.g. Quinn: "Gunung Gamalama indah sekali!" Local citizen
>>> agreeing: "Saya."
>>> I recall that this use of "saya" used to be fairly common in Java 50
>> years
>>> ago when younger or lower status people addressed older or higher status
>>> people (e.g. servant addressing boss), but it seems to have
>> disappeared...
>>> except in north Maluku! Is it still heard elsewhere in Indonesia?
>>> --
>>> Dr George Quinn,
>>> Adjunct Professor & Visiting Fellow, ANU College of Asia and the Pacific,
>>> Member, ANU Emeritus Faculty,
>>> Australian National University,
>>> Canberra ACT 0200,
>>> Australia.
>>>
>>> ** To view some of my shorter studies on Javanese language, literature &
>>> religion go to:
>>> http://anu.academia.edu/GQuinn
>>>
>>> ** For information on Canberra's Balai Bahasa Indonesia (ACT) go to:
>>> http://bbiact.wordpress.com
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: Indonesian language list [[log in to unmask]] on behalf
>>> of BAHASA automatic digest system [[log in to unmask]]
>>> Sent: 31 July 2013 14:00
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8)
>>>
>>> There are 6 messages totaling 393 lines in this issue.
>>>
>>> Topics of the day:
>>>
>>> 1. saya vs. aku (5)
>>> 2. BAHASA Digest - 28 Jul 2013 to 29 Jul 2013 (#2013-7)
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 21:49:49 +0900
>>> From: Ajiek Kushajatie <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) Re:
>> saya
>>> vs. aku
>>>
>>> Well, in Jawa Tengah & Jawa Timur, people still using the word DALEM
>>> (means = SAYA) to agree when speaking with elderly or people they
>> respect.
>>>
>>> It is funny that they translate it into Bahasa Indonesia ………
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>> Ajiek Stoneman
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 31, 2013, at 4:10 PM, George Quinn <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've just come back from a visit to Ternate in north Maluku. There I
>> was
>>> bemused to hear "saya" still being used in some contexts as a respectful
>>> word for "yes". E.g. Quinn: "Gunung Gamalama indah sekali!" Local citizen
>>> agreeing: "Saya."
>>>> I recall that this use of "saya" used to be fairly common in Java 50
>>> years ago when younger or lower status people addressed older or higher
>>> status people (e.g. servant addressing boss), but it seems to have
>>> disappeared... except in north Maluku! Is it still heard elsewhere in
>>> Indonesia?
>>>> --
>>>> Dr George Quinn,
>>>> Adjunct Professor & Visiting Fellow, ANU College of Asia and the
>> Pacific,
>>>> Member, ANU Emeritus Faculty,
>>>> Australian National University,
>>>> Canberra ACT 0200,
>>>> Australia.
>>>>
>>>> ** To view some of my shorter studies on Javanese language, literature
>> &
>>> religion go to:
>>>> http://anu.academia.edu/GQuinn
>>>>
>>>> ** For information on Canberra's Balai Bahasa Indonesia (ACT) go to:
>>>> http://bbiact.wordpress.com
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: Indonesian language list [[log in to unmask]] on
>>> behalf of BAHASA automatic digest system [
>> [log in to unmask]]
>>>> Sent: 31 July 2013 14:00
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8)
>>>>
>>>> There are 6 messages totaling 393 lines in this issue.
>>>>
>>>> Topics of the day:
>>>>
>>>> 1. saya vs. aku (5)
>>>> 2. BAHASA Digest - 28 Jul 2013 to 29 Jul 2013 (#2013-7)
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 21:50:52 +0700
>>> From: Saut Situmorang <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8)
>>>
>>> I never encounter the use of "Saya" in the context of Master-Slave
>>> relationship. The word "Hamba" is usually used. When "Sahaya/Saya" used
>> to
>>> address a feudal master, it is the same as using it to address a Kepala
>>> kampung or university rector in contemporary Indonesia: Formality's sake.
>>>
>>> -Saut Situmorang
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 11:00 AM, BAHASA automatic digest system <
>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There are 6 messages totaling 393 lines in this issue.
>>>>
>>>> Topics of the day:
>>>>
>>>> 1. saya vs. aku (5)
>>>> 2. BAHASA Digest - 28 Jul 2013 to 29 Jul 2013 (#2013-7)
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 12:05:47 +0700
>>>> From: E B <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Subject: Re: saya vs. aku
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't "saya" have an etymology of meaning "slave" or "servant", the
>>> same
>>>> way the "abdi" can mean "servant" or "I" in Javanese?
>>>>
>>>> In Malay, they often just use "I" instead of "saya". One could
>> probably
>>>> get away with that in Indonesia; but I haven't tried it, yet.
>>>>
>>>> Those are very good links (
>>>> http://www.ausdag.blogspot.com.au/search/label/Aku%20dan%20Saya &
>> http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/showthread.php/20880-Bahasa-Kita?p=221283&viewfull=1#post221283
>>>> & http://bahasakita.com/pronoun-substitutes/ )
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:18:46 +0900
>>>> From: AJIEK KUSHAJATIE <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Subject: Re: saya vs. aku
>>>>
>>>> SAYA is formal
>>>> AKU is imformal
>>>>
>>>> Also, SAYA is when you talk with elder people and people you respect.
>>>> AKU use to friends ....
>>>>
>>>> Good luck ...
>>>>
>>>> Ajiek Kushajatie Stoneman
>>>> Tokyo - Japan
>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 30 Jul 2013, at 04:21, Jody Diamond <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> diamond
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 18:13:26 +0700
>>>> From: Saut Situmorang <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 28 Jul 2013 to 29 Jul 2013 (#2013-7)
>>>>
>>>> When using "Indonesian" language (NOT "Bahasa" Indonesia!), "Saya" is
>>>> usually used in a formal context and when speaking to someone much
>> older
>>> in
>>>> age (especially one that you do not know that well) than you. Outside
>> of
>>>> these (including in literary works), most Indonesians like myself use
>>>> "Aku". In the eastern part of Indonesia (Maluku and Papua), people use
>>>> "Beta" for both.
>>>>
>>>> -Saut Situmorang
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:01 AM, BAHASA automatic digest system <
>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There are 2 messages totaling 87 lines in this issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Topics of the day:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. saya vs. aku (2)
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 19:21:49 +0000
>>>>> From: Jody Diamond <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Subject: saya vs. aku
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a general rule or preferred practice for using either saya
>> or
>>>> aku
>>>>> as the first person pronoun? I have heard many opinions on this. Is
>> one
>>>>> better for writing, another for conversation?
>>>>>
>>>>> Pendapat welcome.
>>>>> jody diamond
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 19:47:10 -0700
>>>>> From: David Goldsworthy <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Subject: Re: saya vs. aku
>>>>>
>>>>> Depends on regional context. I don't know about the rest of the
>>> country,
>>>>> but I learnt from experience that in Central Java aku, in spoken
>>>>> Indonesian, still retains its Javanese nuances for many if not most
>>>>> Javanese and thus should be avoided in favour of saya when addressing
>>>>> someone to whom you would not use 'aku' if speaking Javanese. So in
>>> that
>>>>> respect, it is not interchangeable with saya, not in Central Java
>>> anyway.
>>>>> In pure, non-regionalised bahasa baku, aku seems most prevalent in
>>> poetry
>>>>> and popular lyrics.
>>>>> http://www.ausdag.blogspot.com.au/search/label/Aku%20dan%20Saya
>>>>>
>>>>> DavidG
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Jody Diamond <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 30 July 2013 5:21 AM
>>>>> Subject: saya vs. aku
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a general rule or preferred practice for using either saya
>> or
>>>> aku
>>>>> as the first person pronoun? I have heard many opinions on this. Is
>> one
>>>>> better for writing, a
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> End of BAHASA Digest - 28 Jul 2013 to 29 Jul 2013 (#2013-7)
>>>>> ***********************************************************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> http://sautsitumorang.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 23:32:33 +0900
>>>> From: Ajiek Kushajatie <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Subject: Re: saya vs. aku
>>>>
>>>> You are right, SAYA was from the word SAHAYA, means SLAVE.
>>>>
>>>> The old days, when we speak to people of a very high ranking or to a
>>> king,
>>>> we have to call ourself with SAHAYA.
>>>>
>>>> Then, in Bahasa Melayu (Indonesian) we shorten it became SAYA.
>>>>
>>>> The same with the words SAHAJA -- > SAJA and BAHARU ---> BARU and
>>>> DAHULU --> DULU.
>>>>
>>>> All the best,
>>>> Ajiek Stoneman, Tokyo
>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 30, 2013, at 2:05 PM, E B <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't "saya" have an etymology of meaning "slave" or "servant", the
>>>> same way the "abdi" can mean "servant" or "I" in Javanese?
>>>>>
>>>>> In Malay, they often just use "I" instead of "saya". One could
>>> probably
>>>> get away with that in Indonesia; but I haven't tried it, yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Those are very good links (
>>>> http://www.ausdag.blogspot.com.au/search/label/Aku%20dan%20Saya &
>> http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/showthread.php/20880-Bahasa-Kita?p=221283&viewfull=1#post221283&
>>>> http://bahasakita.com/pronoun-substitutes/ )
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 19:13:09 -0400
>>>> From: Sri Wilkinson <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Subject: Re: saya vs. aku
>>>>
>>>> Hallo there
>>>>
>>>> 'Saya' is used in a formal situation/context, it is also used when you
>>>> speak/write to a person you respect or should respect ( including the
>>>> eldery, people in authority and people consider in higher position).
>> As
>>>> Indonesians consider the eldery, people in authority and people in
>> higher
>>>> position should be respected and should be spoken to in a formal way,
>>>> therefore you should address yourself with 'saya'.
>>>>
>>>> 'Aku' is used in an informal situation/context; between friends and
>>> equals.
>>>>
>>>> I hope this answers your question.
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>> Sri Wilkinson
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 19:28:15 -0400
>>>> From: Sri Wilkinson <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Subject: Re: saya vs. aku
>>>>
>>>> Dear Jody
>>>>
>>>> 'Saya' is used in a formal situation/context. It is also used to
>>>> speak/write to a person/people you respect or should respect (the
>>> eldery,
>>>> people in authority and your senior/people in higher position). As
>>>> Indonesians consider the eldery, people in authority and people in high
>>>> position should be respected and should be spoken in a formal way
>>>> therefore you should ddressed yourself with personal pronoun 'saya'.
>>>>
>>>> I hope this answers your question.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>> Sri Wilkinson
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> End of BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8)
>>>> ***********************************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://sautsitumorang.wordpress.com/
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 14:23:32 -0700
>>> From: David Goldsworthy <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) Re:
>> saya
>>> vs. aku
>>>
>>> In further response to the original question, I always tell my students
>>> that there is no single correct answer. Due the the wide range of varying
>>> practices from one area to another with respect to so much of Indonesian,
>>> it is best to wait to see what the local practice is whatever area you
>>> happen to be in. Learn to gauge how they use personal pronouns and terms
>> of
>>> address. In the meantime, always err on the side of caution and stick
>> with
>>> saya - unless you're writing poetry or song lyrics of course.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Ajiek Kushajatie <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 31 July 2013 10:49 PM
>>> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8) Re:
>> saya
>>> vs. aku
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, in Jawa Tengah & Jawa Timur, people still using the word DALEM
>>> (means = SAYA) to agree when speaking with elderly or people they
>> respect.
>>>
>>> It is funny that they translate it into Bahasa Indonesia ………
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>> Ajiek Stoneman
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 31, 2013, at 4:10 PM, George Quinn <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've just come back from a visit to Ternate in north Maluku. There I
>> was
>>> bemused to hear "saya" still being used in some contexts as a respectful
>>> word for "yes". E.g. Quinn: "Gunung Gamalama indah sekali!" Local citizen
>>> agreeing: "Saya."
>>>> I recall that this use of "saya" used to be fairly common in Java 50
>>> years ago when younger or lower status people addressed older or higher
>>> status people (e.g. servant addressing boss), but it seems to have
>>> disappeared... except in north Maluku! Is it still heard elsewhere in
>>> Indonesia?
>>>> --
>>>> Dr George Quinn,
>>>> Adjunct Professor & Visiting Fellow, ANU College of Asia and the
>> Pacific,
>>>> Member, ANU Emeritus Faculty,
>>>> Australian National University,
>>>> Canberra ACT 0200,
>>>> Australia.
>>>>
>>>> ** To view some of my shorter studies on Javanese language, literature
>> &
>>> religion go to:
>>>> http://anu.academia.edu/GQuinn
>>>>
>>>> ** For information on Canberra's Balai Bahasa Indonesia (ACT) go to:
>>>> http://bbiact.wordpress.com
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: Indonesian language list [[log in to unmask]] on
>>> behalf of BAHASA automatic digest system [
>> [log in to unmask]]
>>>> Sent: 31 July 2013 14:00
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: BAHASA Digest - 29 Jul 2013 to 30 Jul 2013 (#2013-8)
>>>>
>>>> There are 6 messages totaling 393 lines in this issue.
>>>>
>>>> Topics of the day:
>>>>
>>>> 1. saya vs. aku (5)
>>>> 2. BAHASA Digest - 28 Ju
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> End of BAHASA Digest - 30 Jul 2013 to 31 Jul 2013 (#2013-9)
>>> ***********************************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sallehuddin Abdullah-Sani
>> Senior Lector in Indonesian
>> Department of South East Asia
>> Faculty of Languages and Cultures at SOAS
>> Thornhaugh Street
>> London WC1H 0XG
>> +44 207 898 4256
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of BAHASA Digest - 31 Jul 2013 to 1 Aug 2013 (#2013-10)
>> ***********************************************************
>
>
>
> --
> http://sautsitumorang.wordpress.com/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 07:40:27 +0800
> From: Zuvrick <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 31 Jul 2013 to 1 Aug 2013 (#2013-10)
>
> It is possibly interesting, yet trivial as well, to note the coincidence
> that "saya" as "yes" as well as first person singular, matches the English
> phonetic form of first person "I" and also a "yes" response as in "aye".
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of BAHASA Digest - 1 Aug 2013 to 2 Aug 2013 (#2013-11)
> **********************************************************
|
