Ryan Albrey ini siapa?!
Jangan sama-samakan bahasa kami Bahasa Indonesia dengan bahasa Malaysia!
Bahasa yang ko pakek di bawah aja kayak bahasa planet aneh, cemmana pulak ko
nyama-nyamain kedua bahasa!!! Ketawak ratusan juta orang Indonesia baca
omong kosongmu di bawah! Kacian deh lu, hahaha...
-Saut Situmorang
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 11:00 AM, BAHASA automatic digest system <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> There are 8 messages totalling 467 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19) (7)
> 2. Infant Language Acquisition of Bahasa (as first language)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 15:25:52 +0800
> From: Ryan Albrey <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19)
>
> Saya rasa mungkin orang di kumpulan emel ini terlalu cerewet pasal apa
> istilah betul dan apa tak betul.
>
> Kita tak ada istilah yang merujuk kepada "bahasa yang diguna di
> Nusantara (termasuk semenanjung melayu)". 'Bahasa' cukup baik pada
> pendapat saya.
>
> Saya tak suka guna istilah "Bahasa Indonesia" atau "Bahasa Malaysia".
> Bukan Indonesia atau Malaysia sahaja yang guna bahasa ini tau! Kerana
> politik saja orang kata "Bahasa Indonesia" atau "Bahasa Malaysia"
> seolah-olah bahasa berdua itu langsung asing. Sebenarnya bukan begitu.
> Mereka tak mahu mengakui sebenarnya bahasa yang dicakap di Malaysia
> lebih kurang sama dengan bahasa yang dicakap di Indonesia. Lagi lagi
> kalau menulis atau cakap secara baik dan benar.
>
> Memang betul orang di KL tak cakap secara sama dengan orang di
> Jakarta. Kadang kala pun orang di KL tak faham orang di Jakarta dan
> sebaliknya pun ada. Namun pada amnya mereka guna bahasa yang sama.
> Loghat dan dialekt sahaja yang beza. Bahasa Indonesia dan Bahasa
> Malaysia ialah dua dialekt dari satu bahasa. Gak setuju? Lihat di
> Wikipedia Indonesia dan Wikipedia Melayu! Langsung tak beda banget!
>
> Bahasa itu tak ada nama. Kalau bahasa itu tak ada nama mungkin
> "Bahasa" cukup baik sebagai nama.
>
> Engkau semua mengerti tak apa erti saya?
>
> Ryan
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 22:05:36 -1000
> From: Uli Kozok <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19)
>
> You're right, David. We have this two extremes on both ends. Indonesians
> who
> insist that their language being called "Bahasa Indonesia" and not
> "Indonesian" and native speakers of English, and apparently some Germans
> too, who think that the name of the language is bahasa. A third variant I
> encounter all the time is "Bahasa Indonesian".
>
> When I thought of an appropriate name for this mailing list I wanted to
> avoid all reference to Indonesian as this list was initially intended to be
> a mailing list focusing on Malay language related issues including all
> Malay
> dialects not only Indonesian. But then some people wrongly associate
> "Malay"
> exclusively with Malaysia. In order to avoid this dilemma and to keep the
> list as open as possible I chose bahasa as the name of the list.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Calling this mailing list 'Bahasa@....' doesn't help either.
> >
> > What REALLY ticks me off however, is insisting that the national language
> > o=
> > f Indonesia be exclusively referred to as 'Bahasa Indonesia' when
> speaking
> > =
> > English. Wrong. The English name for the national language of the
> Republic
> > =
> > of Indonesia is 'Indonesian'.
> >
> > DavidG
> >
> >
> >
> --
> Dr. Uli Kozok
> Associate Professor
> Indonesian-Malay Language Program
> 2540 Maile Way, Spalding 255
> Honolulu, HI 96822, USA
> Tel: +1.808. 956 7574
> Fax: +1.808. 956 5978
> http://www.hawaii.edu/indolang
> http://bahasa.net/online
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 20:23:50 +1200
> From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19)
>
> it's like the french, who distinguish between ces deux langues: anglais et
> =
> americain, a difference in nomenclature that even the mainstream of those
> t=
> wo cultures don't normally insist on.
>
> yang penting: peran dan fungsi pemersatu yang dibebankan pada bahasa
> Indone=
> sia selama 80 tahunan ini, wajib dipertimbangkan dalam analisis
> sosio-buday=
> a masalah kebahasaan.=20
>
> tim
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Indonesian language list [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> Of=
> Ryan Albrey [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, 13 May 2010 7:25 p.m.
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19)
>
> Saya rasa mungkin orang di kumpulan emel ini terlalu cerewet pasal apa
> istilah betul dan apa tak betul.
>
> Kita tak ada istilah yang merujuk kepada "bahasa yang diguna di
> Nusantara (termasuk semenanjung melayu)". 'Bahasa' cukup baik pada
> pendapat saya.
>
> Saya tak suka guna istilah "Bahasa Indonesia" atau "Bahasa Malaysia".
> Bukan Indonesia atau Malaysia sahaja yang guna bahasa ini tau! Kerana
> politik saja orang kata "Bahasa Indonesia" atau "Bahasa Malaysia"
> seolah-olah bahasa berdua itu langsung asing. Sebenarnya bukan begitu.
> Mereka tak mahu mengakui sebenarnya bahasa yang dicakap di Malaysia
> lebih kurang sama dengan bahasa yang dicakap di Indonesia. Lagi lagi
> kalau menulis atau cakap secara baik dan benar.
>
> Memang betul orang di KL tak cakap secara sama dengan orang di
> Jakarta. Kadang kala pun orang di KL tak faham orang di Jakarta dan
> sebaliknya pun ada. Namun pada amnya mereka guna bahasa yang sama.
> Loghat dan dialekt sahaja yang beza. Bahasa Indonesia dan Bahasa
> Malaysia ialah dua dialekt dari satu bahasa. Gak setuju? Lihat di
> Wikipedia Indonesia dan Wikipedia Melayu! Langsung tak beda banget!
>
> Bahasa itu tak ada nama. Kalau bahasa itu tak ada nama mungkin
> "Bahasa" cukup baik sebagai nama.
>
> Engkau semua mengerti tak apa erti saya?
>
> Ryan=
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 07:37:17 -0400
> From: Jody Diamond <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19)
>
> I work (infrequently) as an on-call phone interpreter for a
> company called CanTalkCanada. When they need to talk to someone
> who speaks Indonesian (and that's what they call it) but not
> English (which is the language of the North American company or
> social service), I am called as a telephone interpreter.
>
> Once I was called to help a young mother whose baby was ill. I
> was asked to give her information about a medical hot line she
> could call. After a few sentences, her mother chimed in, and
> eventually took over because --- she spoke English. I was asked
> to get up at two in the morning to talk to some offices in
> Malaysia. They all spoke English. I was asked to interpret for a
> legal deposition. I had to be sworn in, etc. When I began
> "Selamat siang, Bapak dan Ibu," I was interrupted---what
> language are you speaking? Indonesian, I said. The reply: But we
> asked for Croation! I have other times been of help to
> Indonesians in Canada dealing with the phone company, or in
> WalMart trying to replace a faulty X-box.
>
> The language has at all times been referred to as "Indonesian."
>
> jody diamond
>
> (And the term "Bahasa Indonesian" bugs me too.)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 05:08:27 -0700
> From: Katrin Bandel <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19)
>
> To me, the fact that I can read Ryan's email without a problem although I
> h=
> ave never lived in Malaysia or taken a Malaysian langsuage course is proof
> =
> enough that Indonesian and Malaysian are indeed quite similar. If they can
> =
> be called two languages, or two versions/dialects of one and the same
> langu=
> age is a matter of definition.=20
>
> Anyhow, I don't agree that the fact that there doesn't seem to be an
> approp=
> riate name encompassing all those languages/dialects, should encourage us
> t=
> o just accept any name, as for example "bahasa". "Malay" is often used,
> but=
> this is problematic, too. Bahasa Melayu is one of the regional languages
> i=
> n Indonesia (with different regional variations, of course), and it
> differs=
> markedly from the national language referred to as Bahasa Indonesia.
> Insis=
> ting on seeing Indonesian as "only" a form of Malay sometimes goes hand in
> =
> hand with a sort of Malay chauvinistic attitude, i.e. a feeling of somehow
> =
> being "closer to the source", "owning" the Indonesian language more than
> ot=
> her ethnic groups do. It also ignores the many other influences on
> Indonesi=
> an.
>
> I think that the only solution is to just make the effort and specify each
> =
> time which particular language you are talking about. If there is no word
> t=
> hat refers as well to Indonesian as to Malaysian, well, then we'll just
> hav=
> e to go on saying "Indonesian and Malaysian". I don't see much of a
> problem=
> in that.
>
> One more comment on the use of the word "bahasa": In Indonesian colloquial
> =
> speech it is far more common to drop the "bahasa" from "bahasa Indonesia"
> t=
> han the "Indonesia". For example, you can say "Dia belum bisa ngomong
> Indon=
> esia" instead of "belum bisa ngomong bahasa Indonesia".=20
>
> Katrin
>
> Dr. Katrin Bandel
> =0A
> =0Awww.katrinbandel.com
>
> --- On Thu, 13/5/10, [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> wr=
> ote:
>
> From: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19)
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Thursday, 13 May, 2010, 3:23 PM
>
> it's like the french, who distinguish between ces deux langues: anglais et
> =
> americain, a difference in nomenclature that even the mainstream of those
> t=
> wo cultures don't normally insist on.
>
> yang penting: peran dan fungsi pemersatu yang dibebankan pada bahasa
> Indone=
> sia selama 80 tahunan ini, wajib dipertimbangkan dalam analisis
> sosio-buday=
> a masalah kebahasaan.=20
>
> tim
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Indonesian language list [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> Of=
> Ryan Albrey [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, 13 May 2010 7:25 p.m.
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19)
>
> Saya rasa mungkin orang di kumpulan emel ini terlalu cerewet pasal apa
> istilah betul dan apa tak betul.
>
> Kita tak ada istilah yang merujuk kepada "bahasa yang diguna di
> Nusantara (termasuk semenanjung melayu)". 'Bahasa' cukup baik pada
> pendapat saya.
>
> Saya tak suka guna istilah "Bahasa Indonesia" atau "Bahasa Malaysia".
> Bukan Indonesia atau Malaysia sahaja yang guna bahasa ini tau! Kerana
> politik saja orang kata "Bahasa Indonesia" atau "Bahasa Malaysia"
> seolah-olah bahasa berdua itu langsung asing. Sebenarnya bukan begitu.
> Mereka tak mahu mengakui sebenarnya bahasa yang dicakap di Malaysia
> lebih kurang sama dengan bahasa yang dicakap di Indonesia. Lagi lagi
> kalau menulis atau cakap secara baik dan benar.
>
> Memang betul orang di KL tak cakap secara sama dengan orang di
> Jakarta. Kadang kala pun orang di KL tak faham orang di Jakarta dan
> sebaliknya pun ada. Namun pada amnya mereka guna bahasa yang sama.
> Loghat dan dialekt sahaja yang beza. Bahasa Indonesia dan Bahasa
> Malaysia ialah dua dialekt dari satu bahasa. Gak setuju? Lihat di
> Wikipedia Indonesia dan Wikipedia Melayu! Langsung tak beda banget!
>
> Bahasa itu tak ada nama. Kalau bahasa itu tak ada nama mungkin
> "Bahasa" cukup baik sebagai nama.
>
> Engkau semua mengerti tak apa erti saya?
>
> Ryan=0A=0A
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 13:18:47 -0500
> From: eri kurniawan <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19)
>
> Dear all,
>
> The very first time I heard someone refer to Indonesian as "bahasa" was
> when
> I taught Indonesian to Indian expatriates back then in Indonesia. It was a
> well-known fact among Indian expatriates that "bahasa" is the proper
> reference for Indonesian. I've never heard such a term in other contexts
> and
> most importantly, I wouldn't use the term myself. I'm Indonesian, by the
> way.
>
> With warm regards,
> Eri Kurniawan
>
> Ph.D. Student
> The Department of Linguistics
> The University of Iowa
> 556 English Philosophy Building
> U.S.A 52242
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 11:00 PM, BAHASA automatic digest system <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > [image: LISTSERV mailing list manager] <http://www.lsoft.com>
> [image:
> > LISTSERV 15.0] <http://listserv.dartmouth.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=BAHASA
> >
> >
> > BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19) Table of
> contents:
> >
> > - BAHASA Digest - 10 May 2010 to 11 May 2010
> (#2010-18)<#1288fd1f026983be_S1>(6)
> > - Infant Language Acquisition of Bahasa (as first
> language)<#1288fd1f026983be_S2>(2)
> >
> >
> > 1. BAHASA Digest - 10 May 2010 to 11 May 2010 (#2010-18)
> > - Re: BAHASA Digest - 10 May 2010 to 11 May 2010
> (#2010-18)<?ui=2&ik=f96573c9da&view=att&th=1288fd1f026983be&attid=0.1&disp=emb&zw>(05/12)
> > *From:* chris henderson <[log in to unmask]>
> > - Re: BAHASA Digest - 10 May 2010 to 11 May 2010
> (#2010-18)<?ui=2&ik=f96573c9da&view=att&th=1288fd1f026983be&attid=0.2&disp=emb&zw>(05/12)
> > *From:* David Goldsworthy <[log in to unmask]>
> > - Re: BAHASA Digest - 10 May 2010 to 11 May 2010
> (#2010-18)<?ui=2&ik=f96573c9da&view=att&th=1288fd1f026983be&attid=0.3&disp=emb&zw>(05/12)
> > *From:* Uli Kozok <[log in to unmask]>
> > - Re: BAHASA Digest - 10 May 2010 to 11 May 2010
> (#2010-18)<?ui=2&ik=f96573c9da&view=att&th=1288fd1f026983be&attid=0.4&disp=emb&zw>(05/12)
> > *From:* "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
> > - Re: BAHASA Digest - 10 May 2010 to 11 May 2010
> (#2010-18)<?ui=2&ik=f96573c9da&view=att&th=1288fd1f026983be&attid=0.6&disp=emb&zw>(05/12)
> > *From:* Katrin Bandel <[log in to unmask]>
> > - Re: BAHASA Digest - 10 May 2010 to 11 May 2010
> (#2010-18)<?ui=2&ik=f96573c9da&view=att&th=1288fd1f026983be&attid=0.7&disp=emb&zw>(05/13)
> > *From:* Ajiek Kushajatie <[log in to unmask]>
> > 2. Infant Language Acquisition of Bahasa (as first language)
> > - Re: Infant Language Acquisition of Bahasa (as first
> language)<?ui=2&ik=f96573c9da&view=att&th=1288fd1f026983be&attid=0.5&disp=emb&zw>(05/12)
> > *From:* Waruno Mahdi <[log in to unmask]>
> > - Re: Infant Language Acquisition of Bahasa (as first
> language)<?ui=2&ik=f96573c9da&view=att&th=1288fd1f026983be&attid=0.8&disp=emb&zw>(05/13)
> > *From:* "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
> >
> >
> > Browse the BAHASA online archives.<
> http://listserv.dartmouth.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=BAHASA>
> >
> > [image: Anti-Virus Filter]<
> http://www.lsoft.com/products/default.asp?item=secured-by-FS&host=LISTSERV.DARTMOUTH.EDU&wa=http://listserv.dartmouth.edu/scripts/wa.exe>
> [image:
> > Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager]<
> http://www.lsoft.com/products/listserv-powered.asp>
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 15:34:25 -0400
> From: Jody Diamond <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19)
>
> Some academic departments have the label Malay/Indonesian to
> show that both languages are studied, bukan? The times I have
> had Malaysian students in my classes, we could communicate more
> or less, but certain key words were consistently different.
>
> Once Malaysian "became" Indonesian, did certain changes take
> place, like loan roots from Javanese or English, e.g.
> "memrationalizasikan" in a newspaper. (I once had a friend, a
> literature professor in Solo, say "Saya bisa menyupport kamu.
> What does that mean? It's from your own language [insert
> whatever the Indonesian equivalent of "duh" is here].
>
> jody diamond
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 16:02:14 -0400
> From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Infant Language Acquisition of Bahasa (as first language)
>
> This Bahasa/(Melayu/Malaysia/Indonesia) is really interesting and
> definitely deserves existence as a topic in itself, but, unless I missed
> something, no one has addressed the issue originally raised by Svenja abou=
> t
> infant language acquisition=2E This is not to squelch the discussion -- I=
> 'm
> mulling things over but traveling in Malaysia now and not always getting
> time to put thoughts together -- and hope to contribute to it=2E But does=
>
> anyone have suggestions for Svenja=3F
>
> Salam,
> Patricia Henry / Pinky
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Svenja V=F6lkert voelkert@LIVE=2EDE
> Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 19:28:02 +0200
> To: BAHASA@LISTSERV=2EDARTMOUTH=2EEDU
> Subject: Infant Language Acquisition of Bahasa (as first language)
>
>
> Name: Svenja V=F6lkert
> Institutional Affiliation: Philipps-Universit=E4t Maburg (Germany)
> Email: voelkert@live=2Ede
> Fax:
> Address:
> Position: Student M=2EA=2E Clinical Linguistics (holding a degree in M=2EA=
> =2E
> Speech Science)
> Special (academic, research) interest and expertise: Interested in
> linguistics of b=2E indonesia and b=2E melayu=2E Further: special interest=
> in
> indonesian & malay speech pathology and diagnostic investigation of
> speech/language disorders in bahasa=2E
> Introductory Note: I would like to get connected with people who are
> working in the field of language acquisition of indonesian/malay=2E My
> background: I did a B=2EA=2E Language & Communication (linguistics + forei=
> gn
> languages) including Indonesian as 3rd language (besides English and
> Portuguese)=2E After my graduation, I spent one semester at Universitas
> Negeri Jakarta in the german department to assist and learn more about
> teaching=2E Later, I did an M=2EA=2E Speech Science in Marburg=2E Upon com=
> pletion,
> I worked 5 months as a voluntary speech pathologist (holding a scholarship=
>
> from the german ASA-program) in a malaysian school for kids with special
> needs=2E
>
>
>
>
> =20
>
> Hello to everyone!
>
> =20
>
> My name is Svenja V=F6lkert and I am currently working on my master thesis=
>
> (M=2EA=2E Clinical Linguistics, Marburg) about speech pathology (mainly sp=
> eech
> diagnostics) in Malaysia and Indonesia=2E Therefore, I am looking for any
> kind of relevant literature and information about this topic, but
> especially about the acquisition of speech & langauge of bahasa (as first
> language)=2E Interesting for me is the contrastive view in comparison with=
>
> german and english language acquisition=2E
>
> =20
>
> If anyone could help me with accessible publications or other hints about
> this topic, I would be very pleased=2E
>
> =20
>
> Thank you very much,
>
> best regards,
>
> =20
>
> Svenja V=F6lkert
> =09=09 =09 =09=09 =20
>
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
>
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
> http://redirect=2Egimas=2Enet/=3Fn=3DM1004xSkyDrive2
> Ihre Daten brauchen Platz=3F SkyDrive gibt Ihnen 25 GB - gratis!
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> myhosting=2Ecom - Premium Microsoft=AE Windows=AE and Linux web and applic=
> ation
> hosting - http://link=2Emyhosting=2Ecom/myhosting
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of BAHASA Digest - 12 May 2010 to 13 May 2010 (#2010-20)
> ************************************************************
>
--
Saut Situmorang
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=554828232&ref=profile
http://sautsitumorang.multiply.com/
During times of universal deceit,
telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
-George Orwell
|
