To me, the fact that I can read Ryan's email without a problem although I have never lived in Malaysia or taken a Malaysian langsuage course is proof enough that Indonesian and Malaysian are indeed quite similar. If they can be called two languages, or two versions/dialects of one and the same language is a matter of definition.
Anyhow, I don't agree that the fact that there doesn't seem to be an appropriate name encompassing all those languages/dialects, should encourage us to just accept any name, as for example "bahasa". "Malay" is often used, but this is problematic, too. Bahasa Melayu is one of the regional languages in Indonesia (with different regional variations, of course), and it differs markedly from the national language referred to as Bahasa Indonesia. Insisting on seeing Indonesian as "only" a form of Malay sometimes goes hand in hand with a sort of Malay chauvinistic attitude, i.e. a feeling of somehow being "closer to the source", "owning" the Indonesian language more than other ethnic groups do. It also ignores the many other influences on Indonesian.
I think that the only solution is to just make the effort and specify each time which particular language you are talking about. If there is no word that refers as well to Indonesian as to Malaysian, well, then we'll just have to go on saying "Indonesian and Malaysian". I don't see much of a problem in that.
One more comment on the use of the word "bahasa": In Indonesian colloquial speech it is far more common to drop the "bahasa" from "bahasa Indonesia" than the "Indonesia". For example, you can say "Dia belum bisa ngomong Indonesia" instead of "belum bisa ngomong bahasa Indonesia".
Katrin
Dr. Katrin Bandel
www.katrinbandel.com
--- On Thu, 13/5/10, [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19)
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Thursday, 13 May, 2010, 3:23 PM
it's like the french, who distinguish between ces deux langues: anglais et americain, a difference in nomenclature that even the mainstream of those two cultures don't normally insist on.
yang penting: peran dan fungsi pemersatu yang dibebankan pada bahasa Indonesia selama 80 tahunan ini, wajib dipertimbangkan dalam analisis sosio-budaya masalah kebahasaan.
tim
________________________________________
From: Indonesian language list [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ryan Albrey [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, 13 May 2010 7:25 p.m.
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: BAHASA Digest - 11 May 2010 to 12 May 2010 (#2010-19)
Saya rasa mungkin orang di kumpulan emel ini terlalu cerewet pasal apa
istilah betul dan apa tak betul.
Kita tak ada istilah yang merujuk kepada "bahasa yang diguna di
Nusantara (termasuk semenanjung melayu)". 'Bahasa' cukup baik pada
pendapat saya.
Saya tak suka guna istilah "Bahasa Indonesia" atau "Bahasa Malaysia".
Bukan Indonesia atau Malaysia sahaja yang guna bahasa ini tau! Kerana
politik saja orang kata "Bahasa Indonesia" atau "Bahasa Malaysia"
seolah-olah bahasa berdua itu langsung asing. Sebenarnya bukan begitu.
Mereka tak mahu mengakui sebenarnya bahasa yang dicakap di Malaysia
lebih kurang sama dengan bahasa yang dicakap di Indonesia. Lagi lagi
kalau menulis atau cakap secara baik dan benar.
Memang betul orang di KL tak cakap secara sama dengan orang di
Jakarta. Kadang kala pun orang di KL tak faham orang di Jakarta dan
sebaliknya pun ada. Namun pada amnya mereka guna bahasa yang sama.
Loghat dan dialekt sahaja yang beza. Bahasa Indonesia dan Bahasa
Malaysia ialah dua dialekt dari satu bahasa. Gak setuju? Lihat di
Wikipedia Indonesia dan Wikipedia Melayu! Langsung tak beda banget!
Bahasa itu tak ada nama. Kalau bahasa itu tak ada nama mungkin
"Bahasa" cukup baik sebagai nama.
Engkau semua mengerti tak apa erti saya?
Ryan
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