--- Forwarded Message from [log in to unmask] ---
>Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:31:55 -0500
>From: [log in to unmask]
>To: Language Learning and Technology International Information Forum
<[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: #8076.5 Media distribution and copyright (!)
>References: <[log in to unmask]>
>In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
>User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.6
Georges,
If it is any consolation to you, I asked my son about paper versus on-line
workbooks last year before our department placed our text order. My son, who
was in the middle of a college language course, agreed with you. He'd rather
have a hard copy on paper that he can keep and refer to, one that he can work
in even when the dorm's T-1 line is down. It surprised me that a native of the
on-line world would prefer a paper book, but there it is, for whatever one
student's opinion is worth.
As to the problem of copying the answer key in workbook manuals, I tell my
students to use it. I explain that doing the work and subsequently correcting
their answers in a different color ink shows me that they are on the path to
becoming life-long learners, surely a buzz word at other colleges besides mine.
Students who show no evidence of self-correction with the answer key get a lower
grade on their workbook assignment than those who do show evidence.
Janice
----------------------
Janice Rodriguez
Instructor
Department of Modern Foreign Languges and Literatures
Albright College
13 and Bern Streets
Reading, PA 19612-5234
610-921-2381
Quoting LLTI-Editor <[log in to unmask]>:
> --- Forwarded Message from "Detiveaux, Georges J"
> <[log in to unmask]> ---
>
> >Subject: RE: #8076.2 Media distribution and copyright (!)
> >Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 13:26:53 -0600
> >Thread-Topic: #8076.2 Media distribution and copyright (!)
> >Thread-Index: AcXlXcmwLBuJFGi1SROhlwVNd4js+QAAK9Fg
> >From: "Detiveaux, Georges J" <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: "Language Learning and Technology International Information Forum"
> <[log in to unmask]>
>
> With regards to online workbooks and lab manuals, it might also be
> useful to consider an argument that has certainly been made before:
> there is something to be said about paper and pen practice and
> manipulating a real book in front of you, especially when learning a new
> language. When's the last time you curled up in front of the fire with a
> good streaming audio file whose progress is displayed on your LCD
> screen? And how can you turn back to that page whose words and layout
> are stuck in your head even 10 years from now and fondly recall the day
> you learned how to describe the members of your family using possessive
> adjectives if your online subscription expired about the same time your
> mom stopped doing your laundry?
>
> Our Spanish courses use the Quia service for their WB/LM, and I must
> admit that I am very impressed with the grading features and the
> one-stop-shopping environment... just get on the 'net and go to it. For
> DL or flex/hybrid courses, I suppose this is a godsend. Yet, I am
> reluctant to switch to it for our traditional in-person French courses
> for this very reason above. Don't get me wrong: I embrace technology
> wholeheartedly and exploit it when and where I can: every dead horse we
> beat in class is met with the promise of further beatings on CD-Rom
> exercises, on Web exercises, 'flash' vocabulary flashcards, and in the
> lab in lots of other ways. I just can't see myself doing away with the
> practice of pen-to-paper writing altogether. As long as my tests are on
> paper, so will at least some of the necessary preparations for them.
>
> Also, all too often, students these days treat anything they 'write' on
> a computer (job applications, shipping instructions in purchases,
> greeting cards, etc.) like they're in a chat room or sending an SMS
> where they can use emoticons... ; ) and abbreviations... l8r and leave
> out accents... resume. They have no understanding of levels of language,
> and perhaps by insisting on pen and paper with which to react to their
> audio lab work, they will take it that much more seriously. As the lab
> coordinator, I certainly don't mind making that audio available in just
> about whatever format the student or teacher wants, as long as the
> publisher licenses us to do so. You want *.mp3's? No problem. A plain
> audio CD? Sure! An Aldis lamp translation? Got it. (To me, that just
> comes with the territory of my job.)
>
> I also am sympathetic to those who have seen students just going to the
> 'answer key' in the back of the LM/WB to simply transfer the answers
> into their current chapter's blanks. No learning here, right? A trained
> monkey can do that. But there's a solution- custom publishing (Primis,
> for example), which allows to add and leave out desired sections of
> books & have them printed to suit your own needs (specific chapters,
> answer keys, etc.), or I suppose, at the very least, you could go 'old
> school' on them and rip out the offending pages on the first day of
> class for a dramatic ice-breaker.
>
> Then again, maybe you could do the lab manual portion (usually very
> short answer activities) with a Quia-type service and keep the workbook
> (activities requiring longer, more open-ended answers) on paper...
>
> Anyone else dealing with this question right now? Should I be ashamed of
> myself for having such an opinion as the
> language-technology-person-on-campus!?
>
> ; ) l8r... I mean...
>
> Warmest regards,
>
> Georges Detiveaux
>
> Language Lab Coordinator / Instructor of French & ESL
>
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
> Cy-Fair College, LRNC-203
>
> 9191 Barker Cypress Road
>
> Cypress, TX 77433
>
>
>
> http://faculty.nhmccd.edu/gdetiveaux
>
> phone 281.290.5975
>
> fax 281.290.5282
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Language Learning and Technology International Information Forum
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of LLTI-Editor
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:32 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: #8076.2 Media distribution and copyright (!)
>
> --- Forwarded Message from "Read Gilgen" <[log in to unmask]> ---
>
> >Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 11:05:16 -0600
> >From: "Read Gilgen" <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >Subject: Re: #8076.1 Media distribution and copyright (!)
>
> Right on, Joseph!
>
> >>> [log in to unmask] 11/8/2005 12:17:44 PM >>>
> --- Forwarded Message from Joseph O Kautz <[log in to unmask]> ---
>
> >Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 11:15:19 -0800 (PST)
> >From: Joseph O Kautz <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: Language Learning and Technology International Information Forum
>
> <[log in to unmask]>
> >Subject: Re: Media distribution and copyright
> >In-Reply-To:
> <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> Charlie Long makes an interesting proposition and I could not help
> responding with how this fashionable, campus-in-itunes approach would
> affect us. An All Itunes solution would limit how we can use digital
> media. We incorporate audio and video files from publishers into our
> LMS.
> We also augment the content with text tracks done in Magpie, etc. To
> do
> didacticization well, we need the actual files, not a link into a
> "free"
> proprietary content management system. Blackboard used to be free
> too.
> Students are already gouged by publishers. Delivering media from
> Itunes
> will be seen as a new way to make money for the publisher at the
> students'
> expense.
> The way we handle digital files now, I can guarantee my students a
> minimal level of
> quality when I reformat publishers' audio/video files. In the hands
> of
> publishers who will be overly concerned with bandwidth issues and
> their
> bottom line, audio/video quality will be of secondary concern and we
> will
> end up with unusable files that students pay for anyway.
>
> Kiss the language lab good-bye on campus with this kind of delivery
> model.
> Bean counters would be wise to ask, why do we need a Language Lab when
> we
> have IPods and Itunes to benevolently take the place of Language Labs.
>
> Finally, since when do we trust multinational corporations to intepret
> fair use for us? Itunes is far too young to be accepted as a standard
> for
> content management. There are/will be open source clones in the very
> near
> future. I agree with Charlie Long on many of his points, but I have
> less
> faith in corporate approaches to facilitating 2nd language
> acquisition.
>
> I guess as long as I can get copies of the publishers' media for our
> own
> use, Itunes could be helpful. Maybe TOO helpful. Joseph
>
>
>
> On Thu, 3 Nov 2005, Charlie Long wrote:
>
> >
> body{margin-left:10px;margin-right:10px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px
> ;}
> > Dear Colleagues,
> >
> > We spend a lot of time implementing ways to deliver and organize
> > copyrighted audio and video materials to and for our students. We
> make
> > password protected web pages, we post files to course management
> systems.
> > Students have to get on to our networks and behind firewalls in order
> to
> > access them. We have to write for permissions, worry about what we
> are
> > doing is legal, etc. All of this takes time and energy away from
> teaching
> > and learning.
> >
> > I would like to offer an open suggestion to Publishers.
> >
> > iTunes is a wonderful media management system, it organizes, it is
> > searchable, it is cross platform, and it is FREE! Publishers should
> make
> > their audio and video available through an iTunes Educational Media
> > Store. A keycode, along the lines of the Quia, Inc. or Pepsi bottle
> cap
> > model, could be included with the textbook to allow for the
> downloading
> > of the material. Alternately, a reasonable fee could be charged for
> used
> > text books.
> >
> > If IALLT, AATSP, AATF, CALICO, etc. all approached the publishers
> and
> > Apple, this could happen. The advantage to the publishers is great.
> They
> > would not have to publish and package CD's or DVD's, saving them lots
> of
> > money, hopefully passing along the savings to the students.
> >
> > Students and teachers alike would have their own copies of the
> materials
> > to play when and where needed. The built-in copyright protection of
> the
> > iTunes store limits the unauthorized distribution of the materials.
> > Students are familiar with the interface. If EMINEM and DESPERATE
> > HOUSEWIVES can be distributed so easily to so many people, why can't
> the
> > Lesson 5 listening comprehension or the fourth video episode be done
> as
> > well?
> >
> > I hoping that there are publishers who read this list and that they
> will
> > consider this option. I imagine that there are individuals in IALLT
> who
> > will know how to best approach the people who make such decisions.
> >
> > Imagine all students having easy access to all the audio and video
> that a
> > textbook has to offer without the institution having to do anything
> and
> > without the publisher having to do any shrink wrapping.
> >
> > ceL
> >
> > *****************************************************************
> > Charles E. Long, Head
> > International Learning Center
> > -International Study Programs
> > -The Language lab
> > Choate Rosemary Hall 333 Christian Street Wallingford, CT
> 06492
> >
> > "Ask not what you can do for technology, but what technology can do
> for
> > you."
> > "Most people in the world are foreigners."
> > *****************************************************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Joseph Kautz
> Academic Technology Specialist - Stanford Language Center
> Meyer 280B - Stanford, CA 94305-3101 - (650) 725-1615
>
> The world is not to be put in order; the world is order incarnate.
> It is for us to put ourselves in unison with this order.
> Henry Miller
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> Otmar Foelsche, LLTI-Editor ([log in to unmask])
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