--- Forwarded Message from "Detiveaux, Georges J"
<[log in to unmask]> ---
>Subject: RE: #8076.2 Media distribution and copyright (!)
>Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 13:26:53 -0600
>Thread-Topic: #8076.2 Media distribution and copyright (!)
>Thread-Index: AcXlXcmwLBuJFGi1SROhlwVNd4js+QAAK9Fg
>From: "Detiveaux, Georges J" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: "Language Learning and Technology International Information Forum"
<[log in to unmask]>
With regards to online workbooks and lab manuals, it might also be
useful to consider an argument that has certainly been made before:
there is something to be said about paper and pen practice and
manipulating a real book in front of you, especially when learning a new
language. When's the last time you curled up in front of the fire with a
good streaming audio file whose progress is displayed on your LCD
screen? And how can you turn back to that page whose words and layout
are stuck in your head even 10 years from now and fondly recall the day
you learned how to describe the members of your family using possessive
adjectives if your online subscription expired about the same time your
mom stopped doing your laundry?
Our Spanish courses use the Quia service for their WB/LM, and I must
admit that I am very impressed with the grading features and the
one-stop-shopping environment... just get on the 'net and go to it. For
DL or flex/hybrid courses, I suppose this is a godsend. Yet, I am
reluctant to switch to it for our traditional in-person French courses
for this very reason above. Don't get me wrong: I embrace technology
wholeheartedly and exploit it when and where I can: every dead horse we
beat in class is met with the promise of further beatings on CD-Rom
exercises, on Web exercises, 'flash' vocabulary flashcards, and in the
lab in lots of other ways. I just can't see myself doing away with the
practice of pen-to-paper writing altogether. As long as my tests are on
paper, so will at least some of the necessary preparations for them.
Also, all too often, students these days treat anything they 'write' on
a computer (job applications, shipping instructions in purchases,
greeting cards, etc.) like they're in a chat room or sending an SMS
where they can use emoticons... ; ) and abbreviations... l8r and leave
out accents... resume. They have no understanding of levels of language,
and perhaps by insisting on pen and paper with which to react to their
audio lab work, they will take it that much more seriously. As the lab
coordinator, I certainly don't mind making that audio available in just
about whatever format the student or teacher wants, as long as the
publisher licenses us to do so. You want *.mp3's? No problem. A plain
audio CD? Sure! An Aldis lamp translation? Got it. (To me, that just
comes with the territory of my job.)
I also am sympathetic to those who have seen students just going to the
'answer key' in the back of the LM/WB to simply transfer the answers
into their current chapter's blanks. No learning here, right? A trained
monkey can do that. But there's a solution- custom publishing (Primis,
for example), which allows to add and leave out desired sections of
books & have them printed to suit your own needs (specific chapters,
answer keys, etc.), or I suppose, at the very least, you could go 'old
school' on them and rip out the offending pages on the first day of
class for a dramatic ice-breaker.
Then again, maybe you could do the lab manual portion (usually very
short answer activities) with a Quia-type service and keep the workbook
(activities requiring longer, more open-ended answers) on paper...
Anyone else dealing with this question right now? Should I be ashamed of
myself for having such an opinion as the
language-technology-person-on-campus!?
; ) l8r... I mean...
Warmest regards,
Georges Detiveaux
Language Lab Coordinator / Instructor of French & ESL
[log in to unmask]
Cy-Fair College, LRNC-203
9191 Barker Cypress Road
Cypress, TX 77433
http://faculty.nhmccd.edu/gdetiveaux
phone 281.290.5975
fax 281.290.5282
-----Original Message-----
From: Language Learning and Technology International Information Forum
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of LLTI-Editor
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:32 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: #8076.2 Media distribution and copyright (!)
--- Forwarded Message from "Read Gilgen" <[log in to unmask]> ---
>Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 11:05:16 -0600
>From: "Read Gilgen" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: #8076.1 Media distribution and copyright (!)
Right on, Joseph!
>>> [log in to unmask] 11/8/2005 12:17:44 PM >>>
--- Forwarded Message from Joseph O Kautz <[log in to unmask]> ---
>Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 11:15:19 -0800 (PST)
>From: Joseph O Kautz <[log in to unmask]>
>To: Language Learning and Technology International Information Forum
<[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Media distribution and copyright
>In-Reply-To:
<[log in to unmask]>
Charlie Long makes an interesting proposition and I could not help
responding with how this fashionable, campus-in-itunes approach would
affect us. An All Itunes solution would limit how we can use digital
media. We incorporate audio and video files from publishers into our
LMS.
We also augment the content with text tracks done in Magpie, etc. To
do
didacticization well, we need the actual files, not a link into a
"free"
proprietary content management system. Blackboard used to be free
too.
Students are already gouged by publishers. Delivering media from
Itunes
will be seen as a new way to make money for the publisher at the
students'
expense.
The way we handle digital files now, I can guarantee my students a
minimal level of
quality when I reformat publishers' audio/video files. In the hands
of
publishers who will be overly concerned with bandwidth issues and
their
bottom line, audio/video quality will be of secondary concern and we
will
end up with unusable files that students pay for anyway.
Kiss the language lab good-bye on campus with this kind of delivery
model.
Bean counters would be wise to ask, why do we need a Language Lab when
we
have IPods and Itunes to benevolently take the place of Language Labs.
Finally, since when do we trust multinational corporations to intepret
fair use for us? Itunes is far too young to be accepted as a standard
for
content management. There are/will be open source clones in the very
near
future. I agree with Charlie Long on many of his points, but I have
less
faith in corporate approaches to facilitating 2nd language
acquisition.
I guess as long as I can get copies of the publishers' media for our
own
use, Itunes could be helpful. Maybe TOO helpful. Joseph
On Thu, 3 Nov 2005, Charlie Long wrote:
>
body{margin-left:10px;margin-right:10px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px
;}
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> We spend a lot of time implementing ways to deliver and organize
> copyrighted audio and video materials to and for our students. We
make
> password protected web pages, we post files to course management
systems.
> Students have to get on to our networks and behind firewalls in order
to
> access them. We have to write for permissions, worry about what we
are
> doing is legal, etc. All of this takes time and energy away from
teaching
> and learning.
>
> I would like to offer an open suggestion to Publishers.
>
> iTunes is a wonderful media management system, it organizes, it is
> searchable, it is cross platform, and it is FREE! Publishers should
make
> their audio and video available through an iTunes Educational Media
> Store. A keycode, along the lines of the Quia, Inc. or Pepsi bottle
cap
> model, could be included with the textbook to allow for the
downloading
> of the material. Alternately, a reasonable fee could be charged for
used
> text books.
>
> If IALLT, AATSP, AATF, CALICO, etc. all approached the publishers
and
> Apple, this could happen. The advantage to the publishers is great.
They
> would not have to publish and package CD's or DVD's, saving them lots
of
> money, hopefully passing along the savings to the students.
>
> Students and teachers alike would have their own copies of the
materials
> to play when and where needed. The built-in copyright protection of
the
> iTunes store limits the unauthorized distribution of the materials.
> Students are familiar with the interface. If EMINEM and DESPERATE
> HOUSEWIVES can be distributed so easily to so many people, why can't
the
> Lesson 5 listening comprehension or the fourth video episode be done
as
> well?
>
> I hoping that there are publishers who read this list and that they
will
> consider this option. I imagine that there are individuals in IALLT
who
> will know how to best approach the people who make such decisions.
>
> Imagine all students having easy access to all the audio and video
that a
> textbook has to offer without the institution having to do anything
and
> without the publisher having to do any shrink wrapping.
>
> ceL
>
> *****************************************************************
> Charles E. Long, Head
> International Learning Center
> -International Study Programs
> -The Language lab
> Choate Rosemary Hall 333 Christian Street Wallingford, CT
06492
>
> "Ask not what you can do for technology, but what technology can do
for
> you."
> "Most people in the world are foreigners."
> *****************************************************************
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Kautz
Academic Technology Specialist - Stanford Language Center
Meyer 280B - Stanford, CA 94305-3101 - (650) 725-1615
The world is not to be put in order; the world is order incarnate.
It is for us to put ourselves in unison with this order.
Henry Miller
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