--- Forwarded Message from Nina Garrett <[log in to unmask]> ---

>Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:45:12 -0500
>To: Language Learning and Technology International Information Forum
<[log in to unmask]>
>From: Nina Garrett <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: #7807.1 placement test  Placing incoming students (!)
>In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>

Yale will institute a new version of its FL requirement next fall that
includes some provisions similar to those at Luther College.  Incoming
students who have studied a language in high-school and want to fulfill the
FLR in that language will take placement tests;  those who can place into a
second-semester course or higher will have to pass the fourth-semester
course, but those who place into a first-semester course will only have to
pass a third-semester course.  This still allows for the possibility that
false beginners will deliberately do poorly on the placement test so that
they will place into a first-semester course, figuring that doing semesters
1-2-3 will be easier on their GPA than doing semesters 2-3-4.  However, the
departments offering the commonly taught languages are arranging to offer
second-semester courses in the fall, so that when teachers spot the
sand-baggers (love that term!) they can push them out into second-semester
courses so that they will still have to complete the fourth-semester course.

Students who wish to fulfill the FLR in a language they've never had any
exposure to will have to pass a third-semester course.  (Yale offers 50
languages, 27 of them with at least a four-semester sequence.)

Major new proviso:  Up until this year, students coming in with a language
AP score of 4 or 5 were considered to have automatically fulfilled the
FLR.  From now on, even these students will be required (1) to take one
semester of a language course at an advanced level or (2) to pass a
second-semester course in a different language.  I.e., no students will be
allowed to "place out" of all language study at Yale.  Interestingly, our
research has shown that in the past 4 years, 87% of these "place-out"
students took language courses anyway -- either advanced work in the AP
language, or a new language, or both.

We're looking forward to tracking the results of the new FLR in all its
complexity....

         Best,
                 Nina

At 04:36 PM 2/22/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--- Forwarded Message from "Dennis D. Magnuson" <[log in to unmask]> ---
>
> >In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >References: <[log in to unmask]>
> >Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 18:56:22 -0600
> >To: Language Learning and Technology International Information Forum
><[log in to unmask]>
> >From: "Dennis D. Magnuson" <[log in to unmask]>
> >Subject: Re: #7807 placement test  Placing incoming students
>
>LLTI Colleagues and others interested in Language Placement,
>
>Like many other institutions, Luther College for many years faced
>this problem of false beginners--we used to call them
>"sand-baggers--who filled up our lower level courses, especially the
>beginning level.  The problem, as we ultimately discovered, was that
>we merely stated that a student had to take ANY number of credits in
>a second language, regardless of where they started.
>
>As a result, we too had "non-language types" just taking the 101/102
>steps (maybe adding 201 or 202).  The consequences were that we would
>have, say for Spanish, 7 sections of 101, 4-5 of 102, and 2 or 3 of
>Sp 201.
>
>Several years ago we made some curricular changes and got faculty
>support for a minimum second language requirement that stated the 3
>semester course was needed for anyone who had studied at least one
>year of that same language in high school.  In effect, it provided an
>incentive for those students to complete their requirement with only
>one course--but at the third semester level.  BTW, for those who wish
>to take a new language, i.e., not continue with one that they had
>studied in high school, the requirement is still 101 and 102.  That
>allows for students to try languages that they might not have had in
>high school (think Norwegian at Luther College!, though it could be
>Italian, Russian, Hebrew, or a couple of others).
>
>The result: we now have more or less flip-flopped our enrolments.
>This past fall we had 3 sections of 101, 4 of 102, and 6 of 201 (we
>have had as high as 7 of 201).
>
>Although we have not totally deterred the false beginners, we feel
>that we have made great strides toward a more normal pattern based on
>entering high school backgrounds.
>
>I have often thought that we might even add another item and state
>that only those taking 201 or 202 would be considered for graduation
>or departmental honors, though the politics in that kind of thinking
>are not for the faint of heart.
>
>In any event, to just state A MINIMUM will get just that.  Set the
>bar "a bit" higher, and it just may give the kind of results that we
>have experienced.
>
>For those with a full two year language requirement (or higher), I
>presume they may have even fewer problems than we used to.  I look
>forward to reading how others have dealt with this problem of the
>false beginner.
>
>Dennis D. Magnuson
>Assoc. Prof. of Spanish
>Luther College
>Decorah, IA 52101
>(319) 387-2160
>[log in to unmask]
>
>Responding to Placement Test Query:
>
> >  >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:00:26 -0500
> >>To: [log in to unmask]
> >>From: Hiroyo Saito <[log in to unmask]>
> >  >Subject: placement test
> >Haverford, PA 19041 [v011]
> >Hello,
> >
> >The Spanish department asked me to post this message.
> >
> >"The department of Spanish is contemplating the possibility of
> >changing our placement procedure for next year. We would like to know
> >if other language departments at other institutions have specific
> >policies related to the selection of students at the beginning level.
> >Do, for instance, some of these universities require a minimum score
> >at the placement test for students who have already been exposed to
> >the language at the high school level?"
> >
> >The Spanish department has been placing students who have taken
> >Spanish in high school but who do not get a minimum score for the
> >intermediate class in the placement test into the beginner's level
> >along with students who have never taken Spanish before.
> >The number of students in the beginner's level has been increasing
> >and they do not have enough staff members to create a new class for
> >false beginners. They do not want to set a minimum score for the
> >beginner's level because they do not want to close to the door to the
> >students who have never taken Spanish before. They would like to
> >accept the true beginners, but they would like to limit the number of
> >false beginners somehow. They are seeking ideas which allow them to
> >do this.
> >If you have any experience in similar situations, please let me know.
> >I would appreciate your inputs.
> >Thank you.
> >Hiroyo
> >
> >--
> >***********************************
> >Hiroyo Saito
> >Director of Language Learning Center
> >Haverford College
> >370 Lancaster Avenue
> >Haverford, PA 19041
> >(610)896-4971
> >[log in to unmask]
> >http://www.haverford.edu/llc
> >************************************
>
>
>
>
>
>
>***********************************************
>  LLTI is a service of IALLT, the International Association for
>Language Learning, and The Consortium for Language Teaching and
>Learning (http://consortium.dartmouth.edu).
>Join IALLT at http://iallt.org.
>Otmar Foelsche, LLTI-Editor ([log in to unmask])
>***********************************************



Nina Garrett, Director
Center for Language Study
Yale University
P.O. Box 208349
New Haven, Connecticut 06520-8349
Tel: (203) 432-8196
Fax. (203) 432-4485

[log in to unmask]
http://www.cls.yale.edu




***********************************************
 LLTI is a service of IALLT, the International Association for
Language Learning, and The Consortium for Language Teaching and
Learning (http://consortium.dartmouth.edu).
Join IALLT at http://iallt.org.
Otmar Foelsche, LLTI-Editor ([log in to unmask])
***********************************************