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October 2011

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From:
Manfred Kropp <[log in to unmask]>
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Date:
Sat, 8 Oct 2011 09:09:20 +0200
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Thanks Farid! The two different traditions have 
become clear; a further discussion of the Greek 
should be left to another moment.
On the other hand: the practical question is: 
what does one accept as a general rule for 
behaviour and acting; because it is not only a 
question of two different traditions. If one 
keeps to one of the respective rules practical 
consequences can be very different. If that has 
become clear, the learned discussion - and my 
thanks to all who took their time to contribute - 
has got a good result.
msk


>What we have here might just be two different 
>quoting traditions: one Anglo-Saxon or 
>Anglo-American (see the Dictionary of foreign 
>Terms by O. Sylvester Mawson (ed. of Roget's 
>International Thesaurus,Pocket Edition, Bantam, 
>1961, p. 94) favorising «bonum» (see also the 
>English Wikipedia); the other, German (see. 
>Büchmann's famous "Gefügelte Worte", 34th ed., 
>Frankfurt... 1981, 249b), favorising «bene» (see 
>also the German Wikipedia). This divergence is 
>perhaps due to two different translations, 
>because the Latin is NOT the semantically 
>faithful translation of the Greek, but rather a 
>modulation of it. According to Büchmann's 
>"Gefügelte Worte", the Greek original is «Tòn 
>tethnekóta mè kakologein» «Man soll von einem 
>Toten nichts Schlechtes reden» [one should say 
>nothing bad of a dead]; the Latin translation 
>turned «nothing bad» into «only good». But there 
>are still other more divergent variants of this 
>sentence quoted by Buechmann.
>
>So it seems that everybody may be happy with his 
>version, for everybody is right within his own 
>tradition.
>
>German-speaking may be interested in the following article:
>http://www.onlinezeitung24.de/article/3545
>
>Farid.
>
>
>Zitat von Rich Hansen <[log in to unmask]>:
>
>>On Oct 7, 2011, at 12:27 AM, Manfred Kropp wrote:
>>>
>>>The "bonum" is a miscitation (cf. the not 
>>>trustworthy 
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_mortuis_nil_nisi_bonum)
>>>or deliberate alteration of
>>>"de mortuis nil nisi bene".
>>>Deliberate?: yes, because it changes the 
>>>imperative from "being just and fair" in "to 
>>>be a panegyric" (perhaps more fashionable and 
>>>accepted in our times).
>>>msk
>>
>>Well as the translation is from the 
>>Renaissance, at least according to Wikipedia 
>>and not from Classical times almost anything is 
>>possible. Also, although this certainly doesn't 
>>prove much one way or the other, a Google 
>>search on both phrases has bonum outnumbering 
>>bene by a good margin.
>>
>>While there is nothing written (and may never 
>>have been) from Chiron himself we DO have the 
>>source in a way in "Lives of the Emminent 
>>Philosophers" by Diogenes and I guess someone 
>>more mobile than I could hie themselves to the 
>>Library and look in the Loeb Library 
>>translation because what passes (after some 
>>2500 years who knows for sure) for the original 
>>Greek is there in his discussion of Chiron. Not 
>>to mention searching Google books. I leave this 
>>to someone whose Greek is bound to be better 
>>than mine.
>>
>>rich
>>--
>>Rich Hansen
>>[log in to unmask] // [log in to unmask]

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